130. How Every Man Has A Battle to Face | Fred Stoeker

Fred Stoeker is a best-selling author of the Every Man series and a conference speaker who challenges men to become sexually pure and to reconnect in true intimate relationships with their wives, encouraging and equipping men and women to rise up and to be Christian, rather than to simply seem Christian. He has been nominated for numerous writing awards and has won two Gold Medallion awards and two Silver Medallion awards for writing excellence. A graduate of Stanford University, Fred and his wife of thirty-two years, Brenda, live in the Des Moines, Iowa, area.

Read his newest book he wrote with his wife, Brenda: Battle On Battle Over

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Transcript

Cartwright Morris: 0:02

And it's Stoker. Right? It is. So welcome in the mirror forge podcast. I'm your host Cartwright, Morris, and I am excited to have a great guest today, Fred Stoker, coming all the way from Iowa is the author of every man's battle, which I'm excited to get into the story and the origin of this book and this series that has really helped men all over the world. But he's promoting his book, and I look forward to kind of hitting and discussing that is his new book battle on battle over. And before I get into that, but Fred, it's great to have you in.

Unknown: 0:43

It is it is great to be speaking with you. Thanks a lot.

Cartwright Morris: 0:46

Yeah. Well, so I didn't want to get into that a little bit. It just it I have believe from what I've my research. This is your second book written with your wife?

Unknown: 0:56

Actually, it's yes, it is a second one. But we have a third one coming out as well.

Cartwright Morris: 1:01

Oh, wow. So you must enjoying the experience writing and creating with your wife?

Unknown: 1:07

Well, I have to admit that she is smarter than me. I'm, I'm actually the one which is kind of unusual in some people's minds. I'm actually the one that faces the white screen on the computer and actually puts the words onto the page. But they're her thoughts, no doubt about it. I mean, we all sit with a cassette player sometimes and just start asking her great questions, and she gives me even better answers. So yeah, it works really well.

Cartwright Morris: 1:37

So you have enjoyed that process working with your wife creating with your wife. That's so cool. That is really,

Unknown: 1:44

yeah, I mean, I recommend it. I mean, wives, they know so many things that we as men don't naturally understand. And they can really help us to see the world in a better way at times. Yeah, we do it both directions, obviously. I mean, she, she really picks up the whole male perspective and respects it and wants it. I mean, the last thing my wife would ever say is that the male perspective is toxic. I mean, that's dumb, right? So certainly, there are bad people out there, but she loves maleness. She loves the strength that men bring to the world. And I think we as men need to understand that we need to bring that to the table.

Cartwright Morris: 2:32

Yeah. And how valuable the world society is when we both bring our strengths that as

Unknown: 2:40

well. That's what God intended. Right?

Cartwright Morris: 2:43

Right. 100%? Yeah, so I got a little bit of a tangent, Fred before I will really want to dive in your story. And I'm excited to encourage men listening about your story. But I am curious because it you mentioned what women do better and we need to learn from and one is, is in my profession, just helping men like we're really good at doing live shoulder to shoulder in relationship, doing activities together, watching the game all that women are really great at the face to face relationship. Like, let's get deep. Let's get let me find out about your life when I asked actually mean it. So how Yeah, how do you how have you find in your relationship to your wife or seeing women do that maybe some things that men we need to do in our relationships?

Unknown: 3:27

Well, first thing I would say is, whenever we're in a mixed group, I always want to hang out with the women because they have more interesting conversation. Yes, don't you agree? So, but I, when it comes to guys, I mean, we don't, by nature, want to get into our emotions, right? I mean, we just don't and I can tell you from a brain structure standpoint, there's a reason for that. Right? If we see the left brain, I think is the logic part, the right brain is the emotions part in the female female brain, that corpus callosum, the part that kind of is the connecting point between the two hemispheres, it's completely normal and works very well. And so it's easier for women to access that emotional side with men during gestation, that actually is damaged. And so the two hemispheres don't really communicate very well. And so it's harder for men to access their emotional side with their voice. What Yeah, and so it's more difficult for them to communicate and talk in that level. That's why a lot of times as guys I mean, you know what, we'll will tend to do a slap each other in the back and guffaw, tell jokes and when we're close, but we're not really talking on a deep level. I know that some of my closest friends I mean where we've been able to get close together. And I know this will be a stretch to a lot of guys, but where we will literally just one on one set of set apart some time to talk about our families, because men can talk about their families pretty well. And you can talk about maybe the struggles you're having a little bit with understanding your wife or your kids, whatever. And then this is the stretch part. I'll actually sit and worship God out loud, sing out loud with my friend. So I mean, we literally worship God, just the two of us in a quiet spot. And a lot of guys would find that uncomfortable. But what I would say is, if we're going to connect with guys on a deep level, we're gonna have to get out of our comfort zone. Because Because of that, so called Brain Damage between the two hemispheres, if we don't stretch into the area, that's uncomfortable, we never will connect, because by nature, we're not going to connect, because of that the way our brain is structured, so you know, get used to difficult get used uncomfortable, and step out. I mean, that's really what I would say. Now, I, I understand that that sounds hard. But I mean, I've spent time with my sons, just me and my son singing, worshiping, and we're very, very close because of that we can talk about anything. So I hope that wasn't too long of a answer to your short question there. But

Cartwright Morris: 6:43

no, that's great. Because I think right now men just resonating with that. So I mean, I find with my clients even just even the midst of conflict with their wives or significant others, if they struggle to engage when his wife is really crying out to connect, or just to hear how we're processing a difficult situation. And men, I feel like fight or flight kicks in. And we like we don't want to fight. So we just start withdrawing and how do you how do you like spermine? Out there? How do you engage with your wife Connect? We're on a deep level. And what's that third option? In other ways?

Unknown: 7:22

Well, for me, and this is hard for men to because men, we like to think of ourselves, as you know, the leader of the home. And of course we are, but we tend to think of leadership as ruling or being the tiebreaker. Not being challenged. Okay. And I think one of the things that we need to understand is that leadership and marriage is way different than say, a head coach handles that or a president handles that you know, that old, the buck stops here, and everybody needs to listen to me and then do what I say. That is where things break down. And that is where it can lead you to run away. When I've leadership in marriage has more to do with sacrificial love, where you are looking for ways to make everyone in the home blossom, okay to become all that they can be. So when I look at leadership in marriage, if I'm not listening hard to my wife, and even listening to her, tell me where I'm being a goofball. I can't then really be effective at helping her to blossom because I'm not really listening. And I'm not really understanding how I'm trampling her heart. And so what I try to do is, over time, what I've tried to do then is to understand that I don't have all the answers I really don't I'm really been to college, been successful in a business written books, all that, but I really don't have all the answers, especially when it comes to Brenda and how I relate to her and how she needs to blossom. So I guess what I would say is probably the first thing guys need to do is to take on a new understanding of leadership and understanding that it your job is to make them blossom, not to get your way. And that's again, one of those things where it doesn't necessarily come naturally. But I will say this to the guys out there. If you consistently think in those terms that I'm here to make her blossom. I'm here to make my kids have the space to blossom. It actually becomes very easy because it's a much more pleasant form of leadership. Everybody is blossoming everybody's happier everybody is looking at Dad and going I have the greatest dad ever because you're not trouncing all over their heart all the time. And, and plus, it's just, you just feel you just feel better about yourself. When you're not always, you know, pounding in saying,

Cartwright Morris: 10:14

do it my way, right? Right, the tyrant lifestyle, right? Well,

Unknown: 10:18

none of us ever liked it when our dads did it to us. And so And of course, that generation, there was a lot of that, and it just wasn't biblical. And what I'm trying to say is, you know, when the Bible in Ephesians, five says that we are to love sacrificially like Jesus loved the church. His whole life was all about being a life source, and making the people in the church blossom. And so if we think of ourselves as a life source, and someone to make our families blossom, everything will change. And literally, everything will change on a dime. I've seen marriages go from the edge of divorce to just being thrilled and a matter of weeks, and I'm not lying. Many times, it's just a matter of the man taking on a new leadership style.

Cartwright Morris: 11:12

Yeah, and it's like such a, it can be a hard mindset shift. But that mindset shift, like you said, brings instant fruit.

Unknown: 11:21

And, for me, I know, I was at the point of near divorce when Brenda basically said, you either change, or I'm not going to divorce you. But we're separating. And I'm not coming back until you understand this, and was at that point that she obviously had my full attention. But also, God got my full attention. And I actually write about this. Mine mindset changes, leadership style change, in my book, every man's marriage. I mean, if you're struggling in justice area where your wife is saying, Man, my feelings for you are dead, or my feelings for you, or just on life support. I really recommend, I mean, it sounds self serving. I'm not trying to sell books, I don't care. If you don't want to buy the book, I don't care. But if you want your marriage to succeed, he wanted to turn around on a dime. I would say pick up a copy of every man's marriage and read it first yourself, and then read it with your wife. Every single will change.

Cartwright Morris: 13:08

Yeah. So I mean, you got you jumped the gun on me forever. I'm ready to kind of start turning that to you're married at 23. Right. Like, send me a lot of how

Unknown: 13:20

I actually met her when I was. Let me see. Yeah, you're right, because it's September and I turned what it turned 24 in November. So I was late. 23. Yeah.

Cartwright Morris: 13:31

So I'm curious. Just to hear I mean, this is your store your every man's battle, it came out of the hardship that you experienced early in your married life. Yeah. So I love to hear just some of the events that led up to this, you know, one life altering moment in your life as a man as a husband. But then eventually what how it led to the book, but yeah, please share with the

Unknown: 13:56

audience. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of I think we all have our story, right? Because the Lord is he's the king of salvation. I mean, he, he knows how to restore people. And anybody that gives their heart to him is going to have a story. That's glorious, right? So anyway, I had the age earlier when I was was just out of college. So between 20 is probably early when I was 23. But so at that point in my life, I had four girlfriends, I was sleeping with three of them and I was engaged to be married to two of them right. So let's all boo Fred right? I mean, when I say that mixed company, I mean the women all boo and say what a pig, right? So I understand that. But it was that I was never more lonely in my life. And when I had four girlfriends I had because I never sex is not a way to connect with anybody. It's you're never going to connect with the real person by chasing after sex and and so I felt like I was on this gerbil wheel and going crazy. Well, it was that going crazy. That allowed God to come into my life and introduce himself to me. So sitting in my office one night and just I had my feet on the credenza. Everybody else had left it my hands behind my head. And I was just watching a California sunset. I just minding my own business just resting a minute before I went home. And God just came into my consciousness. walked in the room, but he he showed me what I had been Come. And it was a I still can't talk about it was ugliest thing was especially in terms of the way I treated women. I mean, he, he just wanted to bring it to my attention. He wasn't mean about it. And by the time that scene was over, all I could do is bow my head and say, Lord, I'm ready to work with you if you're ready to work with me because I had no answers. And I was obviously desperately needy. Well, anyway, started, I got saved that night and started going to church and eventually met Brenda, and along with all those girlfriends, I was hooked on porn, and I was a heavy drinker, all those things, but by the time I met Brenda, the Lord had kind of cleaned a lot of that out. And so by that time, I wasn't drinking I had, literally, though, was still looking at porn. But then, when I started to realize that once we got married, my money was Brenda's. And I realized I couldn't spend her money on porn. So before we got married, I was off the porn, right? That doesn't mean I was pure. I mean, the stuff I was watching on TV and in movies. You know, if a woman in a parking lot was putting her kid in a car seat, bending over and short shorts, I mean, I was less than jogger going by I was lusting. I mean, I was listing listing listing. So I had all that going on. And then when I got married, I did not know I had a bad temper until I got married. And this has surprised me if other guys have experienced that, because you're now living closely with someone and you can't hide you can't pose anymore, because they're right there. I mean, they know where your blind spots are, and they know where you're faking. And she wasn't falling in line with how I thought a woman should fall in line to a great leader like me, okay, that's. And so, what happened was my temper started to just get way out of line. And, you know, after about two years or so, year and a half, two years, she just came into the kitchen one morning, sat down across from me, I was eating my cereal. And she just said, I don't know how else to say this. So I'm just going to tell it to you straight, my feelings for you are dead. And, you know, I come from a broken home. And the only thing I ever wanted out of life seriously. I could care less about money, I could care less about anything except one thing. I always wanted to have a marriage that last lasted in when she said that? Boy, it was like getting hit by a coconut from 30 feet. I just my whole world began to spin. What am I going to do? What am I going to do. And a couple of weeks into that I remember standing in front of my refrigerator, she was off at work, and I was working out of my apartment. And I remember getting a glass of milk, it was in my left hand. And I just shut the refrigerator door and I was had my finger pointed to the sky and I just said, Lord, I don't care how much gravel I have to eat, but I will never, ever divorce. And I just made a stand. And what I was saying there when I when I was saying I don't care how much gravel I have to eat. I wasn't saying I don't care how much I have to grovel. What I was saying was I will do anything I have to do to change to be the kind of man that God expects men to be, so that I could be worthy of a woman like Brenda. So it was then that the Lord began to talk to me about something called mutual submission Ephesians 521. And that, you know, there's a place in marriage for men to give up their rights for the sake of something higher, and that would be success in marriage. And that was something I'd never thought of I'd always just thought that the great strength of men and their wisdom should be the thing that leads everything forward. Well, that got me to the point where she was saying her feelings for me were dead because I was trampling her heart. And you see, the thing we forget is our wives have gifts that we have to make room for. My wife has a nurturing gift. She has a hospitality gift. And if I'm not making room for those, I'm trampling her heart and she's not able to blossom. Plus if I'm yelling at her punching holes in the drywall, right, I'd also tramples her heart and so, we we worked I mean that what you know you mentioned earlier What was the turning point? Well, when she sat down and poked her finger in my face and said her feelings for me were dead. I mean, that was a turning point where I could finally truly listen to God and truly listen to Brenda. And I realized, what I really realized was that I had thought that early in marriage, we were just having a lot of what would you say? differences in opinion. What I came to understand was that I was literally trampling the core of who she was. And it wasn't just differences in opinion, I was with my leadership style, I was crushing her. And it was during that conversation with her finger, pointed at me that I realized, Oh, this is a bigger issue than I thought, a much bigger issue than I thought there was much more going on here than I thought. I thought she was just not following my leadership. What was going on was my leadership was trampling everything of who she was at the core of her being. And here she was this wonderful Christian virgin woman who marries me and she comes from for four generations of great Christians. And she's not a bad person. Yeah, I was the bad person. I was the one that wasn't lining up with biblical truth. So that would be my early story.

Cartwright Morris: 22:13

Yeah. And yeah, yeah, I was just gonna, just a quick point for it. Because I was curious if, if, in this journey to God show you I mean, what were some of the origins? I mean, you said you grew from a broken home of understanding your anger or even your view of women. Why? You know why that was the way it was. Was there something about your upbringing that taught you that or?

Unknown: 22:42

Well, actually, my upbringing, a good mother and two sisters that I kind of grew up with after my dad left, he was chasing lots of mistresses. We'll just leave it at that. And I really despised the concept of mistresses and all that. And I had made deep commitments to treat women. Well. The only trouble was, is that, you know, when you say how was I raised, I was raised to really respect women. I really, really love women. I think women are the greatest thing ever. But I was also a very strong athlete. Everything I knew about leadership came from really sports, where you know, the coach. He's the boss, if he says, You're a chump run 10 laps, you're running 10 laps. And then the other thing was in college, I got into psychology and sociology. And the reason why I chose those majors was because I wanted to have a great marriage one day, so in fact, my honors thesis was on love, if you can believe that. I mean, it's, it's kind of a strange honors thesis, but my kids still sort of laugh at that, you know, bad writing of honors thesis on law. But you know what, it was everything to me. i All I wanted ever was to have a successful marriage. So what happened really is I came into marriage. I know you'll laugh. I kind of thought it was God's gift. Brenda, really, because I had studied really hard to understand human relationships. And I was a really strong leader. I knew how to lead I was a quarterback right? And so I guess, I just, I just thought she would naturally respect that and follow. And it just didn't work out that way. So

Cartwright Morris: 24:50

the what the just the irony, I might have guessed of just human nature and our idea of logic and God's idea of logic of just how we think degrees, education information makes us great. And gods like No, actually, it's the hard things. It's

Unknown: 25:09

your, your finger right on it. Correct? Yeah.

Cartwright Morris: 25:13

mean, I just think that it's fascinating, because I mean, I know I thought that way that you needed better education, a bigger title at your job, and that's what makes you great when really like, man, it's the it's the people that we really trust and actually have wisdom. Actually, the ones that have experienced something like you experience that were really humbled, you know,

Unknown: 25:35

oh, man was Was I ever humbled? Yeah. I almost lost everything. And so then, of course, I quickly got on everything to get the temper under control and to listen. The thing that I understood more than anything at that point was that, you know what, I can be blind. I don't always see what Brenda sees. And I recognized during that time that she has better discernment than I have in people. Which you could have never told me that before that because I had studied so much and I, I knew people are so I thought, but there is something called a gift of discernment. Right? And she has it boy does she have it, she can read you. She can read it, a new person that walks into your life and five seconds and know their full character. It's just the most incredible thing. And I don't know, once I began to truly understand that I can be blind. And I, I can be wrong. Okay. Then I was able to listen. And I was able to truly get my temper under control. Because the reason why I had a temper problem was she wasn't, she wasn't listening to me. No, I did not realize it was because I wasn't listening to her. There was a problem. And from there, my life became all about making sure she blossomed in making sure I wasn't trampling her heart and longterm part of that then Cartwright was I realized that I could never be as close to Brenda as I wanted to be, if I was looking at girls bending over in the parking lot, or women in the string bikini at the beach, or R rated movies, none of that. So then I had to get my purity under control in order to truly connect, because we need to understand that sin disconnects us and puts walls up between us and the ones closest to us, especially our wives. And God sees every one of those sins. And he recognizes what that means in the spirit realm. And of course, when we're looking at those things, and stretching that direction, we're leaving openings for the enemy to get footholds. And so and I recognized that I was never going to be able to keep my children from going in that direction, as long as I hadn't got things, you know, driven a stake into the ground and stopped generational curses, because my grandfather's were hooked on sexual sin my dad was and I was and I mean, somebody had to step up and drive a statement to say, no more this in this family tree. This is this is over. And so that was sort of a second point in my life where I got to this one point where I finally just had it with the sexual sin and I, and you know, the Lord just before the Lord has said to me in prayer one day, are you going to be the one that drives a stake in the ground and stops this sexual sin in the stoker family tree? Or are you going to leave it for someone better than you down the line? It broke my heart. The thought of somebody being better than me down the line or loving God's purposes better than me. And then the worst part was realizing that if I didn't get that under control, then guess what? God was going to ask that same question to my beloved Son, Jason and say, Jason, are you going to be the man to put a stop to this? Or, you know, your dad didn't have what it takes, but are you going to be the one? Wow, I couldn't, I couldn't. I couldn't stand. I wouldn't have minded if God said that about me if I had failed, okay, fine. But what I really couldn't stand was the thought of Jason fighting that battle by himself. I knew that even if I lost I had to at least fight it. So that I could get him some intel, so maybe he could do a better job fighting it someday. I mean, honestly, if you want to know the truth, I expected to lose the battle for purity. I, I didn't think I had what it took. Now, he didn't really realize just how great God is. I mean, I was a young Christian. I didn't really realize how great he is and how if we truly commit to purity, we can actually be free forever. It doesn't have to be one of those things where until our you know, we struggle with it until our final breath. I don't believe that for instant. And I don't live that way. My sons don't live that way. And a lot of people who have read my books don't live that way. I mean, you can be free. And so I guess the two major turning points in my life For the time where Brenda stuck her finger in my face, and then the time were really the Lord stuck his finger in my face and said, Are you going to be the one? Or do I have to wait for someone else?

Cartwright Morris: 30:51

Right? And so how did you go on that journey of really getting control of your purity? Because I think there are men out there even Christian men that have like, well, I don't look at porn, but get their eyes do wander, like when a woman walks across the room.

Unknown: 31:07

And, yeah, yeah, you know, the whole thing about, well, I don't look at porn. So I'm okay. I'm better than the next guy. That is the most insipid milk toast. weenie way of thinking about just being a guy. Okay. not pointing any fingers. Not saying that anybody who thinks that's not? All I'm saying is it's just not. It isn't how God teaches men to think. The fact is, in Ephesians, five, three, the Bible is very clear, you're not to have even a hint of sexual immorality in your life. The next verse says, you're not supposed to have course, joking, or jesting, or anything about these sorts of topics. Well, if we're not even supposed to joke about it, we're certainly not supposed to lust over the girl in the string bikini, right. So all of it is, is bad. And when you actually look at the science behind it, when I lust over a girl at the beach, the same chemistry happens is if I'm looking at pornography, so to make a differentiation between pornography, and you know, wandering eyes, from a scientific standpoint, it doesn't make any sense. It's not true. And so what I found very early on in the battle was, I needed to get rid of all of it. And so I had already gotten rid of the pornography. And the moment I truly engage the battle, that's when the Holy Spirit can really start working with you. And yeah, I don't know why I didn't remember this sooner. But the moment I kind of made that engagement of the battle, the Holy Spirit reminded me of something I learned at Stanford in school, in human sexuality class, and one of the things I learned was that men can draw sexual gratification straight from their environment, just by lusting after someone and it's just the same kind of sexual gratification as if I'm stroking a woman's thigh or her breast, I mean, it's the same thing. And so one of the things that the Lord had made really clear to me as I immediately had to put a guard around my eyes. And when I'm walking around in my environment, and a girl in tight, yoga pants comes by or anything like that, I need to bounce my eyes away from that not keep looking. And so there's a process I talked about in every man's battle called bouncing the eyes. And I took that very seriously. And if you take that seriously, you can, you can have that you can have your eyes pretty well under control, and six, eight weeks. And I did. And it started a process where everything started to do then clean up. Now, there was one interesting thing and you'll find it fascinating. There is, I call the eye gate and the mind gate, the first vulnerability in male sexuality. I mean, if you don't get that defended, you're gonna keep tripping the rest of your life. Because that sexuality, that sensuality that comes in your mind, creates chemistry that causes problems in your neural pathways and changes the way you look at sex, all those things. But the interesting thing was, is that even though I got all my my eyes under control, and I started starving my mind of all the lost and all that there was one thing that kept going on, and I just could not understand it, because and what it was was masturbation. I was still masturbating, even though I wasn't looking at all these other things, and I really couldn't understand it. And what I found out was, essentially was that you see, I had thought my battle would be over once I got my eyes under control because of what the Holy Spirit had kind of guided into. And when I when I didn't, when, when my battle wasn't over, I had to do a new reassessment in my life. I had to try to figure out what in the world Why is this happening? Because I had a great sex life with Brenda, it had nothing to do with, say, sexual pressure, like, Oh, I'm not getting enough sex and blah, blah, blah. But guys always think, and because I was getting all the sex I wanted, and you know, so when I started looking at my life, I started to realize that really, when I was masturbating was usually at my office late at night. And, you know, I was in full commission sales. And if you don't sell something, your kids don't eat a lot of high pressure. Yeah. Then I found that, as I started to study my life, you know, I was working late at night, because during the day, I had to be out in front of people. But at night, then I could do my proposals, I could do all that stuff. So I would tuck my kids in, tuck brand in, and then head off for a couple of hours at work. And that's when it would happen. And I found as I began to study my life, that it was literally the nights where financial pressure was highest. Yeah, that's when I would masturbate. Or when my doubts about my manhood would be highest. Yeah. Okay, because most of us struggle with the question of, Am I a man? Do I belong in the world of men? Am I a poser? Or will I come through in the clutch? Like men do? And if your dad has never given you the blessing and saying, Hey, you're a man, you belong in the world of man, like my dad, didn't? You struggle? Man, of course, you're, you're a young father trying to feed your family. And you're wondering if you can make it in the world and men and your finances are up and down. And it was just hard. And yeah, I think that I found out. And this is one of the most important things that I've ever learned is that sexual sin is not always sexual at its root, correct, right. And so most guys don't know that. And I call that the stealth, the stealth vulnerability, or the stealth trap. The fact that our sexual sin doesn't have a sexual route. Most men never put those dots, they never connect those dots. And so they spend their lives going, I'm a pervert, I'm still masturbating, even though, you know, I don't want to and they can't understand it, because they can't put two and two together and understand what the root of it is. Once I understood that it was a financial trust issue. I could then when I was really struggling at night, I could take it to the Lord in prayer instead of taking it into my own hands with lotion and a towel or whatever, you know. Or when I was struggling with my manhood, I could take that to prayer. And you know, the Lord would reaffirm and you belong in the world of man, I am amazed. I love you. And the amazing thing that happened for me Cartwright is that once I understood that there were nonsexual routes, and I took those routes, it was nonsexual routes to the Lord. The masturbation stopped. Okay, so the eyes and the mind when I got those under control, it took me about 85% of the way to purity. But I needed to understand about that second vulnerability that stumped that non sexual route. Once I understood that it took me to the 100 and 100%. And do you know, I have not masturbated in over 30 years? Wow, that that's amazing. And, and so what I'm saying is, I mean, I say that not to make people feel guilty, but to let them know what's possible. And to also let them know that there's really as far as I can tell, there are only two vulnerabilities in male sexuality. There's the one the eyes of the mind. And then there's the other, which is the fact that our emotions are tied very tightly to our sexuality, and we can use our sexual apparatus to medicate those wounds. medicate that pain, medicate that stress. And we never put two and two together, but once you do, you can be free. And I say all that to say this. I wrote every man's battle to deal with the first vulnerability but I wrote battle on battle over to deal with the second vulnerability. Yes. So if you're still struggling after reading every man's battle, you that's why entitled battle on battle over it can be over. Yeah, mine's been over a long time. And life is so fun. When you're free.

Cartwright Morris: 40:34

100% Wow, Fred, that is so good. And I love hearing also just like you, you Jr degree in information and God like redeeming it now for the kingdom really? It's so cool. Yeah, the things that we get out of a bad motivation. God's like, I can still use it, you know? Yeah.

Unknown: 40:56

Yeah. I mean, we should call God The Magic Man almost. does these things I mean, yeah, I am the t shirt Magic Man. But yeah, he, he's really, gosh, he has changed my wife. Yeah. You know, when I read my honors thesis on love, I can't read more than three pages without literally getting nauseous, I knew nothing. And everything in my books now comes from him. I knew nothing back then. And everything I know that works comes from him. I really recommend I mean, battle on battle over. The other thing about this book that I think Cartwright you'll really like, is that I believe very strongly that every man's battle is actually best fought as every couples battle. So when you're married, and you have a wife, I have when a wife joins me in counseling with a man who's struggling with his purity, I have as close to 100% success rate as you can imagine, I mean, it's just 100% of the time guys get free. When a wife doesn't engage. And she just goes, that's his problem. I don't care if he masturbates or not, I'm sick of him. And if she just doesn't join in the constant process, my success rate drops below 50%. And so women have wives have a big role in this. And half of the book teaches husbands and wives how to approach and battle this together.

Cartwright Morris: 42:40

Yeah. So Fred, I, this is really interesting to both the like, you hit on these two points, I think I'm really fascinated with like you said, the eyes and the mind, there is something that especially I would love to get your thoughts. Just how the age I mean, most men, I mean, within their 20s It's the age is getting younger and younger. The exposure when I am to really talk about though, I mean, I'm really curious is just the battle on battle over mindset of really, that it's become a coping mechanism, or it is a coping mechanism. Yes. And men we equate it though, in a similar way to like it is, in a lot of ways, I think the way the mind works is is like drinking too much alcohol. But I would say spiritually, unfortunately, way, but the way a woman interprets it, is this is an affair. And, and so I'm you know, I would love to hear your thoughts on just how, how, as men, we could see the depth of these, you know, all these sexual behaviors that we do and how we can help our, you know, going back to just engage a partner in the process as well.

Unknown: 43:55

Well, the first thing that we need to understand and I'm sure you know, this yourself from your own reading is that male sexuality and female sexuality are different. Okay? And until you accept that, and then not just accept it mentally, but begin living that way. Forget it. I mean, it's just not your sex life is never gonna be what you dream it to be. Okay, now, male sexuality is very visual. For one thing, okay, so I can see a stranger in tight clothes, and she walks by with a great fragrance and man, I'm ready to jump in bed. Right? I mean, that's, that's sort of how guys are. It has nothing to do with relationship. It has everything to do with visual and smells and just like, she's hot. Okay. Yeah. The way women see that, they see that as very shallow. I'll never forget that time where a pastor was talking about the differences between men and women sexually. We were at church, my wife was just getting madder and madder. We were both very young. I mean, we're talking. Both of us were still under 25. And so it's we haven't hadn't learned much. And when we got home that night, we had a big fight over it because, you know, what the pastor was saying is that men, that women should use male visuality to their advantage and, you know, dress appropriately to get them get their insurance going. And Brenda snapped with such a nasty attitude. So I suppose I have to prance around like some saloon girl in the cheap Teddy. She's just found it. Oh disgusting, and I don't know. So, and I looked at it and said, well, not really. I mean, but you could show your shoulder once in a while, right? I mean, it's, it's not as bad as it all sounds. But on the other side of it, you need to understand that for women, their sexuality is relational. It is not visual. I mean, playgirl magazine when it came out as sort of a partner to Playboy, it went bankrupt. Women aren't interested in looking at static pictures of men in the nude big deal to them, right. There's no relationship tied to it. And so when they see us being very visual, to them, that is a very, that's a betrayal of the worst kind for them. They don't do sex they don't do. Even masturbation is some of those things without kind of a relational aspect to it. And so when they see us just chasing after a stranger, we look very perverted, because we're doing all that with no relationship involved. And so that's really why they see it as betrayal. They would never there. I mean, Brenda would never have sex with someone, unless you had a real tight relationship with them. I just mean, she would find that completely disgusting. Not attractive to her at all. So I think that, in order for us to understand why porn looks like betrayal looks like an affair to them. It's because they see everything sexually, from a relational standpoint, and there has to be relationship in order for them to want to have sex. So I hope I answered your question. But I mean, that's what I be the main point of it.

Cartwright Morris: 47:42

Yeah. And I think just men hearing that, I think it's a somehow it's really is weird in our brains. Because I think you're like you're telling your story, like it was related to your manhood. It was related to high stressful situations, and women can realize that that is not necessarily sexual.

Unknown: 48:03

Yes, yes. And the funny thing is in that second vulnerability, I told you about, women actually have that in their sexuality, that vulnerability, they do not have the first vulnerability of the eyes and the mind as much. One of the reasons why porn addiction is is exploding among women right now, this pornographers finally realized that their sexuality is different. And now they're doing streaming videos, where they tie in a romance theme with all the sexuality. And so once you tie the romance and the relationship in, women can then be hooked. And then guess what? They are also masturbating. They're also then generating the real heavy chemistry in their brain that meditates and so they they train themselves also then to medicate their wounds, medicate their loneliness, medicate their disconnection, in the same way men do. But it's not just with visual things. It's it has to do with that relational aspect, which gets their engines going, which allows them then to use it that way now, yeah, in the book, battle and battle over in chapter three, we talk about that and how women are now very vulnerable to that. But still, for the most part, again, even in a case where both the husband and wife are hooked on porn, it's then still better to fight it together, and understand how each other is built, and hang tough together, and fight your way out together. Right? It's a wonderful thing. Brenda has been, I can't even begin to tell you what a great asset she is in my life. I mean, not only does she understand the reason why God says your body is not your own. It's also your husband. I mean, she understands why that's important to make sure that I'm getting that connection. And she would never let that drop even if she's tired or whatever else. I mean, she's in this battle with me to win. And she knows that when I get into sexual sin, it weakens my prayer life. It weakens me over my kids because I'm always feeling guilty and then yelling it

Cartwright Morris: 50:41

for I'd love that that would be great. Well, Fred, yeah, this has been really good. And I I'm fascinated just by so many have so many questions off, right, like we said to have you on again, probably should. Because I am like, Man, how you talked about your own life putting a stake in the ground in culturally like God because of technology, people, young men are being exposed to this at such a young age. So you're there's almost this revert, we have to work even harder to rewire our brains that is good and redemptive towards sex, but I'm finding I'm meeting with God. And so I really Yeah, I guess probably my last question really would be battle on battle over. And you've you've definitely already hit this. But you know, for the reader out there, the guy who? Oh, man, I've kind of lost my question here. But But, yeah, go ahead. Well,

Unknown: 51:42

here's the deal. One of the strongest themes in battle and battle over is that we as men are raised to believe that going to bed with a girl is our ticket into manhood. Okay? Yes, yeah, if we're not, if we're not getting that acceptance from our dads or uncles as the A Yeah, you're a man. My uncle's used to, I was a city kid. They're all farmers. And they used to, they used to let me know, I'm not really a man. Okay. And so I was kind of grown up in an area where I really wasn't seen as fitting into the world of men. And so what most sexual addictions counselors will tell you that if you, if you don't find your manhood in the company of men, what you tend to do is go through your second window of opportunity, and that's to try to find your manhood through your sexuality with women. The trouble is, you can never find your manhood with women, you just can't. And there there is a very strong theme, and actually a whole chapter talking about what the two whole chapters actually talking about what the genuine ticket into manhood is, for men not going to bed with a girl, but being about her father's business are. And I prove it, I prove it biblically, that also prove it from my own life. If you'd like my stories, correct? Oh, my, I've got some really good stories on myself, and battle on battle over but around the theme of manhood, because honestly, if we want to be sexually pure, we've got to get that right. And you've got to understand that, as men, one of the most important things in our life is defending the beauty in our life, defending the women in our lives. And if we don't have our sexuality, right, we'll never defend the women in our lives. And in order to get our sexuality, right, we've got to have our manhood right, where we understand that we're here to fight great battles, and live great adventures and defend the women in our lives, both sexually and otherwise. So, I mean, I saw my battle for purity. Cartwright is more than just a battle against doing wrong things. I saw it as a battle to establish my manhood. Yeah, to be in a position where, spiritually, I wasn't creating disasters in my spiritual armor. And I was able to defend my wife defend my kids against all comers. That includes Satan. And so, you know, to me, that's what the Battle of purity is about. It's about establishing your manhood fighting a great battle and winning and letting everyone know in the spirit realm, I'm a man to be reckoned with. Yes. How's that sound?

Cartwright Morris: 54:43

That sounds great.

Unknown: 54:44

Doesn't that? Isn't that what we all want? Yes, known as a man to be reckoned with. I am. And you know, when I wake up in the morning, Satan's and I'm not. I'm sort of being lied about this. But, I mean, he goes over rats, Fred's awake, okay. Yeah. Because I'm one of the guys that he can't touch in that arena. And he knows that then my prayers mean something. He knows my worship means something more. And he knows that I'm not backing off to him because he can't say to me, when I stand up to him, he can't say to me, oh, yeah, but I know you masturbated two days ago. He can't say that. And so he can't he doesn't have the same footholds and edges and mock me with that would then diminish my faith. So getting back to it But I will say again, the battle for purity is not a battle for just keeping your hands clean. It's a battle to establish your manhood. And you're right to stand in the world of men, both physically, but also spiritually, so that the enemy knows you're a man to be reckoned with. And your wife knows you're a man to be reckoned with. She never has to worry that when you're praying, it doesn't get past the ceiling. She knows. Then we're going to stablish Son of God who lives like a son of God. Yeah.

Cartwright Morris: 56:17

Wow. Oh, bread. I think I need to hear that. That was really good. Yeah, of course. Right.

Unknown: 56:24

Real, really. And I said it lightly before, and I don't even think we were on camera. But look, I would love to talk to you again. You are a great interviewer. And I, you have great instincts on this. And if I can help you guys out there. Have me on again, I would spend as much time with you as you want.

Cartwright Morris: 56:49

No, thank you, Fred. I appreciate that. I might have you come in with some of my men's groups in gets you to kind of talk to them. Yeah, well, so just for my audience where you know, if they want to find more about you, and also, where can they get the book battle on battle over?

Unknown: 57:05

You can preorder battle on battle over right now, on this website, www. battle on battle. over.com just as easiest buy. The book actually, will be out later this month in March. I think it's the 21st If I'm not mistaken. All my other books are at Fred stoker.com. So they're easy enough to find. But battle and battle over just so you know, I kind of look at it as my in fact, everybody that's read it. It's only about a dozen. But everyone this read the book says it's the best one I've written by far, not just by little, but by far. So if you're wondering out there, gosh, this is just another book. No, it's actually my best one. And I'd love you to read it.

Cartwright Morris: 57:56

Yeah. Well, thank you, Fred for coming on. It was it was a genuine pleasure. Yeah, thank you.

Unknown: 58:03

It has been you've got a great smile and good. It's good to get to know you.

Cartwright Morris: 58:09

So yeah, same, same. All right.