How to Become A Man of Character through Enduring | FORGE Pillar #5 | Episode 161

In this episode, Cartwright & Bo explore the importance of endurance in building character, faith, and legacy. He discusses biblical insights, cultural influences, and practical ways men can develop perseverance through life's challenges.

The biblical foundation of endurance (Romans 5, Hebrews 12, James 1)
Cultural shifts impacting resilience (helicopter vs. snowplow parenting)
Practical steps to develop grit and perseverance
The importance of community and accountability in endurance
Building a legacy through long-term faithfulness

Quotes 
"The only way to guarantee failure is to quit"
"The guy who endures is unstoppable"
"Your identity doesn't come from your performance"

Chapters

00:00 Navigating the Christian Journey
01:38 The Importance of Endurance
10:08 Developing Grit and Perseverance
14:01 Viewing Trials as Opportunities
19:35 Building Long-Term Faithfulness
23:04 Finding Balance in Endurance and Change
26:06 Evaluating Trust in Relationships
28:58 Cultivating a Legacy Mindset
32:08 The Importance of Endurance
36:02 Building Strong Relationships for Endurance
40:21 The Impact of Life Pressures on Relationships
49:03 Identity Beyond Performance

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Transcript

Bo Morgan: 

All right, everybody welcome to men are forged the podcast that talks directly to men in their 20s and 30s that are trying to

do this Christian journey together and navigate what it is to be a Christian in today's world and navigate all the truths and all the lies that we get, all that fun stuff. We have been doing the Men are Forged curriculum, the thing that Cartwright came up with, ton of incredible content. And we've been working through the five pillars of the word forge.

Which I'm hoping to spell right this week F-O-R-G-E. Man, did it all by yourself. round of applause for took me a while. And today we're on E. And if you want go back and listen to some of the others. But not on NT.

Yeah, we're not on empty. You may be. You've been teaching a this feel it a little bit, yeah. Yeah, Carl raised a bunch of classes this morning, so we'll give him a little grace today. But no, today we're doing E and that stands for enduring man. And so basically the first thing we have here is God calls us not only to start well, but to finish well through perseverance.

Key verses are Romans 5, 1 through 5, Hebrew 12, 1 through 3, James 1, 2 through 4. And the core question is for an enduring man, will I keep going when it gets hard or will I quit and settle or avoid my responsibility? Yeah. Get us going on that. Man, it's just a theme throughout the Bible. Yeah, I guess when I was like 27,

Cartwright Morris (02:27.243)
26 when I was you know, I've kind of recommitted my life to the Lord and kind of set my journey into ministry and all sorts of stuff and These verses kept coming up the ones about hope and the ones about endurance and they're usually connected There was something and I think there is like a people want to call it a generational thing I think there is a

throughout human history kind of thing sometimes is certain things. How do we learn to manage our own emotions in difficult times, keep going forward and not hitting the escape or fight, you know, fight or flight button basically or freeze as some psychologists are saying. just, it's a thing and I think a lot of it is

If I want to use some cultural terms here is many of us grew up with either helicopter parents. If there's anything hard, our parents just jumped in and did it for us. Even pushed us out of the way. Right. So.

There's I think this is more new than people are calling it snowplow parenting. It's no longer helicopter parenting It's snowplow parenting or literally you just push all the hardships out of the way So they have no idea that maybe I got a Push past a little this maybe I got to like go through some struggle to get to it and here's like wow

So this theme one we're seeing, I want to say from a cultural standpoint, but also a biblical standpoint, like this is, Romans 5 is the obvious one, because Paul lays out just almost like a math equation, very lays it out simply. Endurance produces character. We all want to be men of character. Well, you got to endure.

Cartwright Morris (04:36.723)
Character produces hope so there's another connection to hope and hope does not disappoint It's like here's the thing about hope it connects us to the thing That keeps us going forward that allows us to adore right so anyway That's kind of my when I think about this is like and it's kind of what the last But kind of best for last in a sense not the best But I really am like when we were trying to embrace our identity going back to even the discussion talked about

identity, automaticity with the Navy SEALs. I am the guy who endures. I am the guy who doesn't quit. That's just who I am. Learning to embrace that identity in the midst of chaos in life, because it's hard. I could speak from personal experience, the pressures of life can either bring out the best in us or the worst in us. I've just seen more more countless situations with men. When things got harder, they got worse.

And the repercussions are immense. mean, when there's kids involved, when there's family involved, when there's people's livelihoods involved, it's just, we need more men that have the ability just to go.

All right, Fitz just hit the shan. This sucks. But here we go. Lean on me. And I think that's the, we're just so spoiled in this culture because I think we do have it so easy. We really do. We really do. I mean, it's wild to think about how people even just use the bathroom for thousands and thousands of years, but in the last 60, we have something called indoor plumbing.

Cartwright Morris (06:25.521)
and all our technology advances and everything have added value to us, added value to our lives, also made things just where we think everything should be easier.

Yeah, we have a higher expectation of things to really be kind of seamless, Like not have many bumps in the road because we have so much, so many resources to go to instead of facing it ourselves. So I'm not like this personally really because I think I'm pretty loyal, but professionally I can totally relate to this because I have so many times where I can think of like,

I don't like how this thing went or I don't feel appreciated or I don't feel valued or Hey, this project is really hard. Well, I'll just get out You know what mean? I did this natural tendency to like start. You know what I mean? I kind of absolutely feel the pull on that but there's so much value and Well now hold on. Let me be where my feet are and actually try to You know perform even better even when I don't feel like it. Yeah, you know, there's kind of a greater

sense of accomplishment when you're able to do something like that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think you learn a lot about yourself. You learn more in that situation. You know, I think in a job scenario, it's like, all right, let me think, you know, here's the reason why I wanted to quit a job.

one, if the compensation is just terrible, but also there's not a lot of alignment or collaboration. And then three, the third, if you don't have all three of these things, then yeah, you should probably quit your job. But if you got one, especially in your 20s, then you should probably stick it out. And three is the learning piece. Am I learning about myself, about business, about how to... You're being stretched. Yeah. Figuring stuff out, how to problem solve, all the things.

Cartwright Morris (08:27.435)
That's what happens when we have that, learn to hit that endurance button. We just really find out more about ourselves. We learn about just more, just general life skills when we have the ability to do that. I mean, you mean the concept of just cooking, eating food, right? It's like, well, let me go with some. Yeah, DoorDash. Yeah, now we got DoorDash. We don't have to get in the car to go sit in the drive-through.

You know? It's so nice. It is. It is. Oh man, but there's something too of like, hey. There's no friction with spending the money either. You just tap with the You don't even see the cash leave. Right? Oh, it's so nice. You know what? Oh, I get a free delivery this month. You know what? I can't lose money on this.

But it's just a real thing where you know for thousands of years people had to go hunt, make, spend hours making something and grinding out grains. It's so funny you bring up door dash because every time we door dash I promise I have this thought I'm like I would be so embarrassed if my dad found out I was door dashing. For real. Because he'd be like huh you're gonna let somebody bring food to your door you know what he talking about go get it. You know you have a really good car out there.

I definitely would always think about that too. It's more expensive. Which, before I had kids, I had that thought. I I still go pick up food, but when you have kids and you're trying to get bath time going and Well, you like to cook too. Yeah, it's a de-stressor for me. anyway, but...

So, this is the cooking episode. It can be. There's lessons to be learned in it. Key focus and issues on this topic. One of the bullet points is developing grit and perseverance when motivation fades. So it's not even necessarily when something is opposing you or something hard happens. It could be going, you know, you could have a really good setup, but it doesn't always mean the

Cartwright Morris (10:33.709)
Motivation is gonna show up every single day. Yeah, right. I had this day yesterday man yesterday. I I don't know. was just in a cloud. I don't know It was one of those days. I was just like I Don't want to do anything You know what mean? I? There's no reason for it. No reason for it. Yeah. Yeah perfectly healthy nothing wrong

you know, the business is going great. Like, I mean, it was just like a Monday where I was just like, I don't want to do any of this, you know, but.

It was good to work the muscle level. Do it anyway, dude. Right. You know what mean? Do it anyway. Be where your feet are. And then after an hour or two, you kind of pick your momentum and you get going. But my point is, my point is, when motivation fades, it feels a little bit different than what we were just talking about, like where stuff is going wrong. Right. Right? And that's where...

So I would say I had to learn this the hard way because in my 20s, even early 30s when I had those bad days.

it was then turned into like a woe is me session of, I don't know how to work hard. I'm not, you know, where now you kind of understand yourself. Like you're just going to have bad days. That's right. Yeah. Just like accepting that. Like I'm not going to be a hundred percent, a hundred percent of time. That's just not me. Some people may be that can, that's not me. And going, okay, well what do I need to get done? When I make sure that I check off. Yeah. Or some people it's like, have I built this way? P six.

Cartwright Morris (12:06.763)
day, you know, playing solitaire on my phone, which I don't even know people still do that. But not an 80 year old woman. man. What's maybe a more or I'm draft Kings on my phone. But anyway, but so there's a level of like, okay, let me learn in the midst. How do I endure?

Alright, let me move from, alright, let me stop thinking I'm, you know, Elon Musk doing everything all the time to, alright, what do need to get done today? Make sure I check that off. Going back to like the faithful son, the mark of success in our life as believers. Alright, what was I faith, am I faithful with what I'm doing today?

I've felt that recently like almost allowing yourself permission to just chalk up some days It's just a bad day and it's alright go to sleep wake up the next day I feel like in my 20s. I really struggled with that Yeah, cuz you know you kind of you're under this belief that like man if it's if it's not great every day Then I must not be living out my passion. You you kind of deal with that you know like man I want to you know I wanted to be Nick Saban you know I mean

And if that wasn't going right then like, you know, something was off. But now I totally see what you're saying. I feel like in my early 30s now, I'm like, that's just a bad day. You've had enough of those where that's what it is. Let's just chalk it up. It's just a bad day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Now let's go on about you said that. Next bullet point is viewing trials as character building rather than reasons to quit. And I will on this point, I love it because when you're in a tough season, tough day,

tough week, if you can change your mindset from, how the heck do I get out of this to, okay, man, this is how I really am going to refine and stretch myself and see the value in those two things, then those days that you're inevitably gonna have really aren't that bad by the end of it, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's when you put more in your situation where...

Cartwright Morris (14:25.691)
You look at a trial and you don't ruminate into what like allow it to defeat you, but you actually see it as like, it's an opportunity. Yeah. Then the harder the situation, the more you're ready for it. know, people want to be that person who's dependable, trustworthy, thrives, you know, wants to be the, the Michael Jordan, give me the ball at the last second, you know, at end of the game, kind of, you can't, you don't, can't just drop yourself into that moment. You have to kind of.

build to it and that's by looking at situations and trials and going man and you feel that you're like that cortisol level goes up you're like fight or flight and you go

if you can just somehow have that narrative, almost like kind of the way we talk about when we talk about preaching gospel yourself, preaching that to yourself like, oh, this is growth opportunity. This is a plan for me to learn. All eyes are- takes some rubs too. Yeah. And it starts with self-taught. It's like, man, all eyes are on me now. I gotta own this.

A lot of times it comes from, yeah, you did something wrong and you failed and immediately you want to just throw off blame somewhere else. But that's opportunity to go fully own it and I'm going to fix it.

That's, think, in their 20s, I think that's probably the best scenario I could think of for somebody in their 20s who wants to learn how to view trials as opportunities, is to take a moment where you failed and own it. And then say out loud, I will find a way to fix it. I'd probably say that's probably the number one way to gain respect from your peers too. Yeah. Is in situations like that. It's not when you kill a sales pitch and everything's great. It's when...

Cartwright Morris (16:14.859)
you know, sales pitch does not go well. Yeah. And then you could come in the next day and say, Hey, this is how, yeah, this is what I learned from that. This is how I better. I don't know how anybody would be like, not good enough. Yeah. You know what I Especially when you're twenties and thirties, it's like, yeah, we get it. You're going to fall down. Yeah. You know I mean? Yeah. It's almost like, know, be honest about it. I had a leader who would say, when, know, I had to learn this the hard way, but it was like, you know, you come to us like, and I had this, I did this, this, and he's like, and he's like,

Well good. That means you're learning. You know that mindset, getting around those type of leaders is huge. But I would say most of us, yeah, I mean would say we grew up in, we're still operating like we're 10, 11 years old being called out and being like, no I didn't, you know. And it's, unfortunately there's too many adults walking around doing that.

That never saves you, right? No! never seen it. I don't know. It just feels like this is a really great way to just dig yourself deeper in a hole and lose all respect you may have had. And I keep thinking of this through the perspective of a job. I that's a good example. I don't know. You've been around the people at work that like...

won't own up to something or, know, and it's like, dude, I just don't want to be around you. But the people that are like, yeah, yeah, I messed up. They gain, yeah, more trust. Yeah. More, have more value. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to find a solution. Yeah. One of my closest friends now, somebody I work with every day, and this happened last week. So like he was, he kind of shifted his focus from like,

what his core focus was when he was hired to doing something else. And, and he sort of got called on it cause there was a mistake. Long story. but dude, he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I got it. Yeah. No, that's totally true. I did it. I understand. I did shift my focus and it wasn't like anything. He was like working hard in an area where, know, he wasn't intended to work. So it's not like he was doing anything wrong. He was adding value just in the wrong direction. Right. And,

Cartwright Morris (18:27.304)
Yeah, he came in the next day and was like, yeah, yeah, I totally see that. This is what I'm gonna do to fix it, put a plan together, and I'm like, dude, I will go to the end of the earth for you. Oh, 100%. I'll do anything for you. Yeah. But I imagine a lot of us who did that, I I probably did that at some point in my life, it doing the opposite.

We probably saw adults doing it, not owning it, trying to slide away from responsibility. And maybe that's how we thought, this is how people operate. Maybe we subconsciously stored it away. If I'm being a psychoanalyst here on it, but I, there needs to be more examples of like that of one. Yeah. Bo, you saying that guy's trustworthy, but also goes, yeah, I need to bring my dad in the feet. If he's operating that way. so it kind of sets the culture. Cause you see the positive effect of him taking ownership and then it's like,

I can take ownership in what I mess up. Which never happens. It happens every day. You know what I mean? But for real. That's kind of cool.

I respected him lot before, but after that I'm like, yeah, I'll do, I'm with you man. You're my teammate. That's cool. Well, the next bullet point is building long-term faithfulness over short-term comfort. We kind of covered that. It's like, hey, it would feel really good to just bail right now.

but you probably look up at him once and you'll be like, I wish I hadn't done that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, absolutely. Yeah. Whether it's a job relationship, whatever, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting in just, I want, would say they both kind of crossover in relationship and job of

Cartwright Morris (20:18.953)
And this is maybe going back to the reflective leader and or being in more ground. I mean, all of them, they kind of overlap, but like the idea of.

knowing yourself and having some level of discernment in the moment of going, am I bailing out of fear and kind of addressing going back, we've talked about this, you know, what's motivating me in leaving is because it's hard. Your ability to evaluate yourself in that moment. It's like, I've had moments that with relationship with my wife, right? Many times where you're like, gosh, I'm starting to feel that. Ooh.

where's the eject button? And you're like, no.

no, this is a moment to lean in. we have, you know, our relationship has grown because we've leaned in versus putting up a wall or looking for the exit or, you know, and so learning how to embrace those moments, whether it's in relationship or work. But I think also like it doesn't mean that you shouldn't get out of an unhealthy relationship or or leave a job that's not doing like I said earlier, those three things. So, yeah, it's learning to

Yeah, discern those in the moment, but also like yeah like in your 20s is building that muscle of endurance So yeah, I mean it's the same. It's the same I mean there's always and this is I don't want to get us off track But it's kind of the thesis of this this podcast is It's learning how to strike the balance between two things. You know, it's like

Cartwright Morris (21:56.544)
you do I act right now or do I be still? Yeah. Right. and the answer is yes. Yeah. I don't know. don't know what, what is, you know, like, and, is the answer right now to, to leave this job or to leave this relationship or is it to endure? Yeah. You know, the, again, the answer is yes. You know what mean? It's kind of, that's the challenge of, being a Christian or really you don't have to be a Christian, but like, you know,

But we back all our decisions.

Christians or we should like how you know, does the word say? What does God say? What is you know, where is he teaching me to do here? And it's always striking the balance That's what I've kind of found with you too. Like in all my time with you. It's like There's always tension between two points and I'm getting us off track No, it's good always tension between two points and this could be one of them. Do I endure or do I? Make a change. Yeah, you know, so what are some of the symptoms like and and any of these like a situation like that do

Do I endure or do I make a change? What are some of the symptoms you see? I guess you said what's it driven by? that you're saying? fear or? Like I mean going back to that previous bullet point of comfort. Am I doing this solely because I feel uncomfortable? That's probably not the best. But I think some language is, someone...

advise me is like following your peace. you know, going back to that's John 16, you know, I don't give peace as the world gives the peace I give to you, right? That, that learning, like how am I, where is it? That's, that's the convoluted question. It's like, there's a difference between peace and comfort. Well, I was going to say, you know, I would have said, well, I feel a lot peaceful. You know, and I think, you know I mean? Yeah. I mean, that's where, so I would say is

Cartwright Morris (23:52.63)
This is going back, I mean these are continual conversations for guys in our 20s. It's figuring out who you are, what are you about, what are your core values, what's your purpose in life. These things help shape these decisions.

You know, so that's why discovering that and really thinking on them and evaluating because at the end of the day, that's what's going to matter. Those internal drivers more than comfort feelings, right? Cause you will then just go whichever way the wind blows. So when I say following your peace, I'm like, all right, is this consistent with who I am, who God's calling me to be? You know, is it, I have done everything I can in this situation. mean, I'll, you know, speaking of personal experience in a job where you feel disrespected,

hat you're not growing you're not being compensated you know you feel like there's a lack of alignment do you then go okay

Is it worth it to sit here and endure and where you've seen the carrot being dangled for over and over again, but there is no carrot. And then you just go, all right, son, move on. That's where, and you go, okay, what is best for me? What's best for my family? What's best for my growth, my skill set?

What do mean by the carrot that's being dangled that's not really a carrot? Well, I I think in some employers or even in relationships people do this where it's like the Alright, this is hard here. You have like and when I say doing everything like having difficult conversations Working hard at what you've been given

Cartwright Morris (25:32.47)
Putting forth the effort to improve the situation, but it's just not improving and then the person you know and then whether it's a boss or Significant others just always well if you keep doing that you'll get this Yeah, yeah equity a raise Bonuses you know You know I think then we'll get married is some way to look at it in a relationship context Or then we'll have we'll move into a bigger house or whatever. Yeah, you you can kind of

put the, I mean these people that are listening, you know the X that somebody has probably put in front of you. And it's just like, that can't be the driver of your daily life. There's just so much you're doing. Especially work and relationship, this is the majority of your life. People that you put in relationship with and people you work, the work where you work with. It just can't be the majority of your life. So learning to evaluate that and go, okay.

Do I trust this person? I'm willing to endure. Do I not trust this person? I probably, no, I need move on. I think that's probably the best way to look at it, the trust factor.

And then like we always say to take your lumps to, you know, learn. mean, you know, learn from, I mean, I've had situations before that you and I have met extensively about where you trust somebody and I think they probably are trustworthy person. Like, I don't think that like, you know, a lot of times like in business, you know, you can trust the person, the man, whoever.

but when you get in the middle of business and business deals and all these things, it's not like you can't trust men. You just can't trust that situation that they're put in. Does that make sense? Like,

Cartwright Morris (27:19.563)
So you kind of have to view it two ways. You can still trust the man who's making you this promise. But if you see the, if you're getting advice from people, like I've tried to do advice from people that are way smarter than me, they have way more experience than me. And they've given me advice in situations like that. like, Hey man, I'm telling you that's probably not going to happen. Not because the guy isn't telling you what he believes to be true, but because you

This business probably doesn't allow for bonuses or allow for you to have equity or whatever and he just doesn't know that yet. So Yeah, you know what mean? Yeah, there's almost like you're discerning. It's like not even just saying oh, I don't trust this person's character That's not silly. It's even their skill set. Yeah our abilities Yeah, it's like they may be a good person of character, but their abilities cause them There's a cap on what they can yeah, mean they can true they could a hundred percent believe what they're telling you. Yeah You know mean

But

But there may just not be a pathway to that point that they just don't see yet or whatever anyway, it's complicated, right? And when you yes, but I to answer your point Bo is really is at the end of day It's like it's not always especially in the work context is thinking about Trusting somebody in their character. There's always the other side of it. Are you can you trust their abilities to do what they say? Yeah, that's right that there's that's almost two separate things Same today, you know, they both can be yeah, and if you're 20s

And they have self-awareness of no difference. Yeah, you just turned it to Trump for some reason It was a really good point the best point you really heard you started doing Trump hands. Sorry 47 doesn't yeah. Yeah. Yeah zero mistakes As soon as I did the Donald sorry

Cartwright Morris (29:19.659)
Yeah, I really did forget my point. Anyway, you want to get into some quotes? Yeah, let's do that. Let's just do whatever. Well, no, actually I want to hit on this first because this caught my eye. The last bullet point you have is cultivating a legacy mindset. I don't know this is really what you mean, but I took it as this and it's something that I've been kind of, it's been in my brain lately. I keep talking about...

Parenting because that's kind of thing through this show because you and I are figuring that out in real time, right? I've got a one-year-old you have a two and a half and a three month old. Yeah, so We're figuring it out as we go. We're in the trenches anyway, I have had the thought like when you're dealing with you know financial trouble if you're dealing with you know You're having a conflict with your wife or something like that Like if Carly and I are having conflict or we're having pressure from outside stuff

I have had the thought where I'm like, okay.

I'm going to, I see the value even more now in enduring through this and being steady and consistent, just the way my dad was with coming out the other side and coming out better so that he sees how I react and stressful, pressured, stuff like that times, right? Because for me, my dad was steady Eddie. mean, he was, he was doing all the things everybody probably deals with when you're in your thirties.

20s and 30s, but I never knew it. He was the same guy. You know, and that's what I want to be. That's kind of what I think when I see legacy. But is that what you mean by that a little bit? A little bit different maybe? Legacy mindset. When I think of legacy mindset, it is just a, yeah, a more long-term thinking of who I am, who I believe I'm called to be. Like, and that is being established.

Cartwright Morris (31:17.509)
over decades, not just days and months. And I think that's where the ability to endure. But also, so your kids do it too, right? Yeah, there's a model. Is physical legacy in a way? Yeah, I think also it's like, you just building a reputation of being trustworthy, dependable?

does what he says and says what he does kind of thing. Yeah. Well, one of the, you've got two quotes on here, but the one that caught my eye was David Goggins. man. was a while back. did that one. Yeah. That was like episode two. That was interesting. We talked about David Goggins in episode two. If you want go back and listen to it. The only way to guarantee failure is to quit. Yeah.

The only way to guarantee failure is to quit. So that's really 100 % of the time. That's kind of a, I just haven't really thought of it that way. But if you're quitting, then you're admitting failure. Right?

I think this is going, I don't want to get too nuanced or complex, but yeah, is a, like we were saying earlier, there is a season to move on, to go to the next thing. It's just what is motivating you in that, to, I think there's many times, yeah, I didn't want to be the guy who quit, the guy who gave up, but.

you really have to evaluate. Okay, yeah. And think of it. But I mean, David Goggett, he lives in that hyperbolic, that strong, I mean, in his own mind, the way he operates and thinks. but there is something to what he's saying. It's like the guy, and if you continue the quote, right, the guy who endures is the one who becomes unstoppable. Yeah. When you have that ability to keep going despite,

Cartwright Morris (33:26.239)
the circumstances, despite your feelings, despite what people say, that's somebody worth following, that's someone worth trusting in, that's someone that we all admire and look up to. I think that's important. about it. for sure. Well, and the other point too, it's kind of, I mean, to your point, every situation is, like this stuff, this curriculum that you've made,

What I like about it is some of the stuff is concrete. some of them are hard truths that are biblically represented in the Old New Testament, right? I mean, some of it is, but some of it is, well, it depends on your situation. You know what mean? Like it depends on, you know, I mean, what's going on? What's the full context, which is why.

Shameless plug you need to talk to somebody about it. I mean, it's not like well, what do I do? You know, I mean that cuz that's where I came to you. Yeah, and I still do this to you It's like tell me what to do. I just did that to you before we didn't record Just tell me And and I think sometimes in our 20s, maybe we need a little that maybe because we don't because we're still learning to gain the mind this is what this

all these are is like the mindsets, the identity based mindsets that actually make us know how to evaluate these situations and but continue to move forward. But there's a yeah. So I don't know if that answers your question a little bit. Yeah, that we're trying. That's what I'm trying to do is like, it's thinking like almost like like a free man, like not beholden to any yoke of slavery. It's like looking through the yoke of slavery is, you know,

is following the law, the letter of the law, versus being in relationship. We have to live in that relationship and therefore it takes wisdom, discernment, takes the ability to endure, but then also to pivot and learn. But I think in the context of enduring is like when we just quit, when we just stop and hit the fight or flight button. That's what I mean. And it's like, and we just kind of like...

Cartwright Morris (35:40.716)
And I think that's what I mean by four, men are four. It's meaning you have some childlike mindsets that need to go away. And so all of these five pillars is I'm trying to, there's something being forged out of you to do away with your childish things and start becoming a man. The men that we admire, I would say embrace these five things, especially the one is they have just the ability to endure.

no matter what the circumstances, feelings, or words of others, they continue to move forward. And I think that's what I'm trying to get at. And so therefore, what does that look like for me? That is for the decision of you, Bo, the listener. What does that look like for me in my life? To me, that's going to take relationship, that's going to take discernment. But the end of the day, you still need to endure no matter what.

Anyway, Well, in the relationship discernment part is the part where like for me, so one thing I think I struggled with this in my 20s, especially was, okay, I have this expectation of what my professional life is going to look like. Yeah. And this is what it's going to be laced up. It's going to be, it's going to be step by step. I'm going to have my daily routine. I'm going to do these things, right? The results are going to come in. The results are going

to come. I'm not going to need much help because I kind of got this thing figured out. This Christianity thing, I've kind of got that pegged too.

You know what mean? Like I'm a new follower of Jesus and him and I are gonna talk every day and I'm gonna hear audibly from him on what exactly to do. You know what I I'm just telling you, like that's the... I'm laughing because it's so true. Yeah, I mean because it's like, okay, so you get a few years into it and you're like, holy cow, hold on now. This is hard. This is really hard and it's just not that clear all the time. Like how do I, how do I discern, how do I even trust myself first of all? You know, to like even like...

Cartwright Morris (37:41.8)
try to do some of this stuff. And then I found out after a while, it's like, can sit down by myself and try to figure it out and try and sometimes that works. Like sometimes the Holy Spirit will speak to you. But I would say most of the time it took me coming in here and talking to someone like you and talking to some of the other people that have really spent time and mentored me on, okay, I'm really not understanding this very clearly. So one, I have the discernment to even say I'm not getting this.

Help me out help me dissect this and I think about this mainly with this topic because a lot of my stuff in my 20s was about jobs Yeah, you know I I was like I was a football coach and I you know, I wanted to be in coaching and in the coaching world there was There's nothing else out there. You're in a bubble. And so anyway, I don't know it just kind of so yeah I mean this you're making a great point bow. So I think for anybody out there we

We probably in our 20s especially, is we think endurance is just, hey, I can grind it out, baby. I can get it done. I think there's something when I, maybe sometimes when you say persevere, grinder, whatever, maybe there's a loss in translation sometimes, we think. And that's an isolated endeavor, becoming an enduring man. But I would say there's all these tools and components when you're becoming an enduring man, a man who endures.

The ones that we really admire, look up to, really know how to embrace it, have things around them that create that. And to your point, one of them is having somebody to talk to regularly. Having other men that are willing to challenge them or help them piece together some of these things so they can endure more. Develop their character. reading the Bible daily. Having counsel from, know, whatever, you know.

Yeah, the ones that don't endure don't have that. I mean, more and more, I just know or have met men that are all upset that things aren't working out, but I'm like, well, all right, well, who's around you? Oh, well, a bunch of...

Cartwright Morris (40:00.684)
guys my age or younger buddies that I've just kept through the years who the only time we get together is really to drink or play video games. So they have a leadership certificate. Yeah, exactly.

Cartwright Morris (40:14.471)
There's a Easter egg Yeah, but I mean that's so yeah, I mean yeah exactly read a book Yeah, read books so you're wrong. Sorry for those who don't understand the context

Yeah, but you're just screwing this up. I mean, I will remind people at that point though, there is, there's more than to just reading the book or the podcast or going to the conference. How do you then apply it? That's what was the point. To that point, also similar is like, can't just say you have, well, I got a circle of friends or I've got people around me. like, well, how many of those people are actually challenging you that you,

just more and more you just realize like some people put certain people around them so they don't they're not challenged Pete they put people who are either less than them who have a less maturity or be so they're never challenged and it's like that's a real thing yeah so maybe that's today maybe the challenge for some of these guys is like man you really want to be someone who endures who develops character from endures but people around you that you know you're

Not threatened by, you know that challenge you. That maybe have some maturity in other areas that you don't. I mean, think that's to your point, I think the moral story. It's a lot harder to challenge yourself. I feel like if you're not surrounded by these people or person, I feel like over time you could maybe...

you know, discern, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but like, what I'm trying to say is over time, I feel like your flesh and your kind of selfish nature, if it's isolated and by yourself is going to end up kind of calling the shots in a way. And it's really hard to like step back and be like, wait, that's not right.

Cartwright Morris (42:09.949)
It's really good to have somebody say, Hey, I'm seeing that. And that's not, yeah, that's not something that's. Yeah. Does something exactly. what's to encourage those who that sounds scary that it can be, that is a very encouraging place to be, to be in a room where people are kind of helping you discern and value it really. Do you even go back to the, the comfort piece thing as like, I'm telling you, that is a peaceful place.

when you start really being challenged in a healthy way where someone is thinking about your best interest when they challenge you. I swear that feels much better than you being in room with a of yes man or like, that sucks. Yeah. Well, and what you'll find too, at least this has been my experience that, you know, taking that advice, maybe at first your first time in doing that can be uncomfortable, but when you see it work, then you start really desiring and looking for that advice, you know, because for

me, I've taken really good advice in my mid, probably late 20s, and I see where I am now, and I'm like, man, if I was really making, listening to myself back then instead of somebody else, I'm not sure where I would be. So now, naturally, you start seeking it. You're like, gosh, who could, you know.

how can I get back in front of this person so they can help me in this situation? And another thing you'll find too is that people love to help. People love to be asked for help, hey, can I have your help with this? People's natural thing is like, well, yeah. And then in turn, you gain respect with that person because it's like, I'm not trying to be perfect here. And the ones who don't probably don't have a lot that much to give. Honestly, I'm speaking from experience, people that you ask for help and are like, God.

It's like, yeah, I you as a bird and it's like, oh yeah, you probably shouldn't get a bunch of things. Yeah, for sure. I did want to, so I know that you and I have kind of talked about this a little bit and I wanted to maybe dive in on maybe the deeper end of the pool with this because I think it's a real thing. And maybe this isn't so much for the guys in their twenties, but I think you and I, especially now, we're seeing, you know, by the time you get our age,

Cartwright Morris (44:35.723)
you've been married for a few years to 10 years, whatever. And what we're starting to see was some of the people that we know and love and trust and all these different things is marriage is starting to fall apart and relationships starting to fall apart and things getting harder because, know, especially today, like, you know, interest rates are high, milk is $10, all this stuff, right? So like diapers are

You know, and so you're dealing with pressure there and you're dealing with pressure in your relationship. And what I'm seeing more and more of, and this has kind of been eye-opening to Carly and I is like, so many of the people around us that like, would never in a million years think that they would split up or do anything, you know, like one person just like bail all of a sudden that you never would think would bail on their marriage or something. We're seeing that more and more, you know, as we get into our early to mid thirties,

What do you attribute that to? Well, you sent me off for failure here. Well, for real, right? Well, I mean, I think I referenced a little bit earlier, but it is like, I've referenced it. It's almost like a switch went off. It it's happened like, but it, but it was, it was building. I guess so. Yeah.

Somebody didn't just wake. No one woke up and one morning goes, all right, I'm out. It was building to that. And that's what I mean. Like if you are not intentional about I am the guy who endures today and realizing that this produces character, hard as it may be a producer, if you don't start ingraining that now in your twenties, even before then.

pressures of life will mount. There's no doubt of my mind and you will look for a way out. Well, I guess that's what I mean too. Like I guess kind of the segue into that is like, So the stuff in your twenties is probably jobs and it's probably figuring out what you want to do. And it's all this stuff. Yeah. It's relationships. Yeah. But the habits you're building in your twenties on, if you're going to endure or not. And I seem like a hypocrite because I've jumped jobs and done all that stuff, but I'm just, I still, think what I'm saying is true is the habits that you're forming then are the

Cartwright Morris (46:53.227)
same habits that will resurface in different situations like your marriage or your relationship with your kids or does that make sense? mean it seems like it's kind of similar like if you learn that like well man just jump ship if it gets hard at that job or just jump ship at this thing then like when you become 35 you've been married 10 years and you're having to like

really use like, you know, intentional effort on a relationship that's not just going to come super easy all the time. It's going to be easy to be like, okay, I'll do the same thing I did with this job. Does that make sense? Just kind of like, Yeah. That's what I It's like, we're a holistic person. can't just, we have these mindsets we think can be part mentalized, but they're not very much. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you mean.

I'm trying to think, you had a thought that...

maybe go somewhere. I think I think I know what you're saying, though. But it is. Yeah. I think there's something to doing this in all areas of our life. Therefore we're building strongholds in these areas and not being where, yeah, we can part middle-ized thinking, I could be wishy washy over here, but I am really an enduring, steady, you know, solid person over here. it's like, guess it just, to me, feels like the stakes get higher the older you get. Yeah. Because it's not so much your job, even though it

be your job but like what I'm seeing with some of the guys I went to college with and known after college is that

Cartwright Morris (48:33.003)
Well, now people are leaving their wives and their kids. So in your 20s, you don't see that very much. But then when you get into your 30s, you start seeing that more. And I guess I've just been surprised at how often it happens. Right. Yeah. It's wild. I guess I didn't see that coming. Yeah. But I mean, you could totally see why. mean, yeah, pressure. There's pressure, man. There's pressure. 100%. You know what mean? You got a mortgage.

You got all these different things. formulas, know, more than gold these days. You know what I like, you know what saying? I don't know. It's just kind of, it's been surprising to me. Yeah, and those pressures will bring out the best or worst in you. You can't be neutral in those things. Yeah. And it will, yeah, I mean.

Yeah, and then, you know, the bad days seem worse sometimes. Yeah, that's right. You're learning, yeah, it's just like... And there's something too, I think, going back to our constant conversation about basing your identity off performance, what you can do. And then especially going back to the family and marriage situation, meaning that there's many, especially when you have young kids, there's just, it like there's always your...

never doing enough or you're constantly failing in that area.

And so if you have an identity based performance then and you're failing at home, that starts getting ingrained in you. Yeah, that's right. And that that belief system and therefore you will either go try to find an area you've and the only way to to live out in that area of life, whether it may be it's another woman or whatever you you know, in the world and the enemy will tell you, well, they'll be better off without you anyway. Yeah. You know what mean? Yeah, because I'm a failure. Right.

Cartwright Morris (50:29.009)
because my performance is not enough. Yeah. Yeah. But you're just like, especially the young kids, you're just not going to, you're not going to win all the time. Yeah. know, toddlers like, you know, and so, yeah, I think learning like, all right, my identity doesn't come from my performance. It comes from who God says I am. And also that I'm like these things, like I'm an enduring man. Okay.

means when things aren't going well, when I fail, I still show up. I'm still the same guy. I'm still learning how to do that. So anyway. Well, you have it right here. Why it matters in your 20s, and I think we've hit it all, but most men start strong in their 20s but quit when life gets hard. An enduring man builds the habits, character, and legacy that define the rest of his life as a husband, as a father, as a leader, and a follower of Christ.

This pillar determines whether your story ends in regret or in well done. Yeah. Cause there's a lot of enduring too in your walk with Jesus too. then daily practices showing up, especially when you don't feel like it's celebrating small faithfulness, keeping a perseverance log.

that one, my, my, last one might've gotten a little AI in it, but, yeah, perseverance, that could be something for some people y'all out there and just have a spreadsheet. we talked about journaling. Yeah. Talk about journaling. Just have a place where you're like, okay, this was hard and I kept showing up. Yeah. Right. It, you know, you know, I mean, I think it goes back to anything that truly worth having in life is hard and anything in life that's

needs growth, it needs time. And you just won't know until you look back and go, yeah. yeah, I did keep showing up and things did happen, even though I didn't see or experience the fruit initially. yeah, yeah man, it's a tough one. It's a tough one. Is that it? We got anything else, We're right on time. Right on time. All right, thank you all for listening.

Cartwright Morris (52:43.369)
Stop.