Why Your Expectations in Your 20s Are Off—And How to Fix It | Episode 162

Bo and Cartwright explore the expectations versus reality faced by young adults transitioning from college to the professional world. It offers practical advice on managing expectations, developing empathy, embracing failure, and understanding one's true self in the journey of growth.

Key topics

Expectations vs. reality for young adults
The importance of humility and empathy
Learning from failure and discomfort
The role of mentorship and relationships
Personal growth and self-awareness in early career

Sound bites

"Expectations often clash with reality."
"Know your value and how to add it."
"Experience teaches more than theory."

Chapters

00:00 Dreams and College Anxiety
03:25 Expectations vs. Reality in Early Adulthood
06:04 Bo's Early Professional Journey
09:26 Managing Expectations in Your 20s
12:25 The Formula for Success and Fulfillment
15:25 Developing Empathy in the Workplace
18:17 Understanding Value in Professional Settings
21:19 Evaluating Job Opportunities
24:09 The Importance of Culture and Role Models
27:13 Emotional Stability and Community Engagement
31:45 Navigating Emotional Needs in Relationships
34:20 The Importance of Mentorship
37:49 Learning from Meetings and Connections
44:36 The Art of Receiving Feedback
48:35 Embracing Failure and Taking Risks
01:01:37 Understanding Acceptance in Faith

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Transcript

Cartwright Morris (00:02.136)
Have you had that dream where you're back in college and you're sitting down like in a big, like I have this, like I can tell you the exact lecture hall that I'm in at Auburn.

And I'm sitting down and it's like a biology exam or something like that. And they start handing out the exam and I'm like, but I'm me today. And so I'm like, shoot, I'm me today. Everyone around me is me 20 years ago. I'm gonna fail this exam. But it makes, but you know when dreams like they make perfect sense when you're in them, but then when you get out of them, they don't make sense. Have you ever had that one?

where you're like, oh gosh, I'm not gonna pass this exam. I mean, I'm sure there's been a test at some point. That's a recurring one. What does that mean? What does that mean? You mean you your dreams? Yeah. That's what the podcast is. Yeah. I mean, there's something, yeah. I mean, there's something too of like...

Cartwright Morris (01:03.63)
But also I think I've been in those dreams where you're like, yeah, you experienced the same anxiety you did at that age, but in the dream, but then you're also kind of like,

Who cares at the same time? It's really weird. It's almost like it's taking you back to, oh, this is what brought you anxiety back then at 20. That now, if someone tried to make you take a college exam, you're like, no, I'm good. You wouldn't have the same anxiety. But it still takes you, in the dream, takes you back to that same. Think about how different it would be now, for college kids now, with AI. Oh, right. How do you...

not use it for everything. every assignment. Do you smart funds when you were in college? Yeah. We were just getting, like, I think I got my first one when I was a sophomore or junior. You're way back. You had the razor. I had the Nextel little like walkie talkie thing.

Did you really? Yeah, and that would really piss the teacher off. Oh, 100%. Yeah. man. Anyway. Is that how we're it off, Yeah, that's how we're kicking it off. No, I think, so you came up with a really good idea and this is kind of, speaking of college, we wanted to talk about real quickly.

Because this has been a common thing that you and I have talked about too, like over the years, what specifically new graduates or people in the early 20s, they're getting out of college or finishing up college and they have a certain expectation, but then certain realities hit and what are some things that you can do kind of.

Cartwright Morris (02:55.756)
to help throughout that process, I guess. So it was kind of fun. Right now I'm sitting here and we're writing down like, what were some of our expectations, you know, when we were in that stage of life and then countered that with what the reality was, looking back on it. So this is kind of like a, it's almost like a podcast.

Cartwright and Bo trying to speak to themselves here in their early twenties in a way, right? Yeah. mean, so yeah, it'd be kind of cool. We'll exercise. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're going to, yeah, the reality versus expectation, which is, you know, definitely in any phase of life or any new thing you're taking on, there's, there's the expectation and there's reality that hits. cause it was funny this and really a lot of it made me think this morning, I had a great conversation with a, a guy who's got a son who's 19.

and you know he's pretty confident about who he is and he's about to meet you know he's about to step into some experiences where he's gonna get some humility and that's part of all of our you know our lives and our story is like some humble pie is probably needed and that I in to me my and what makes this subject and so many some of our listeners guys listen

is like there's probably no maybe no greater.

place of humble pie, then I mean I'm sure there could be more other ones that I'm not thinking of, but is that stepping into leaving college where every social thing is planned out, every, you know, got, your life is pretty much right there in front of you. And then you step into, you know, people call it the real world, right? You still deal with stuff in college, but you experience, you step into a professional life and it's like, that's

Cartwright Morris (04:55.011)
serious humble pie because you're working with people of different ages, different life experiences, and it's a big reality check. Yeah, absolutely. mean would say the one, and Bo you mentioned it in the last episode, the enduring man episode.

talking about how you had the big expectations stepping in your 20s and you listed off some good stuff because it was really like, and I'm trying to remember off the top of my mind, I've watched that short on there a good bit where it was like, yeah, I'm gonna have, I'm gonna know exactly the money I'm making, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna.

You I can't remember some of the stuff, but you, basically knew it was like, got it figured out at 23 years old. I got, know exactly what I'm doing and this is going to work out perfectly. mean, I just, this might kind of spark some thoughts for you too. Yeah. Yeah. Mine was, so I was going to be, I want to be a college football coach. I was never good enough to play. I played in high school, but wasn't good enough playing college. And so I wanted to still be around the game. So I thought coaching was my thing. So I say that because man, I,

Man, I was going to be probably Nick Saban by the time I was 30.

You know, I mean, I was like, man, give me just a few years of this and I'll just be knocking people over. You know, like I'll be negotiating a massive contract with Auburn. We'll be winning championships and yeah, it'll be fine. I mean, I know what I'm doing. I've watched enough football. Goldman is my age. I didn't know that. Is he really? Yeah, he's 41. Yeah, so that was my story. I really did. Man, I really did. And it kind of was...

Cartwright Morris (06:43.737)
I don't think it was totally wrapped up in arrogance, but I think it was just like a confidence that, um, I, that's right. Yeah. And so like, I don't think I was like completely like arrogant about it, but it was a, um,

something that I had to go through to realize, actually, you know, th this is pretty tough. The second one I've had really too. So like I was, while I was coaching, you know, that was the expectation. And if you've ever coached, know, pretty quickly how competitive and how cutthroat it can be, you know? And so that, that didn't, and plus, you know, I was early twenties and Carly and I got married when I was 23 and, you know, working the.

the workload that's required to do it wasn't really in the cards if we wanted to like continue to invest in our marriage and grow in our marriage. So that was the first one. The second one was when I got out of coaching and I was going to start doing some business stuff. So I got a sales job and as soon as that started, it's like it started over. I was probably 27 and man, I was going to sell my first business in like six months for, you know, maybe $50 million.

of me. You know, I mean just like create an app man. You know, just create an app and somebody will come by. So I've really, I've had two like, I've had two instances in my last 15, 16 years where yeah, I kind of had this thing figured out. So yeah. And when you think, yeah, those at that age,

Because I guess, know, especially my generation, I guess both of me, we are the same generation, but like...

Cartwright Morris (08:30.745)
you know, guys, there was people my age in the world that were creating stuff that was leading to the billion dollar valuation, right? And so there was this expert, Oh, I've got this idea. And once I flesh out this idea, I'll be be set. you just realize it's like, there's nothing new under the sun, you know? And also what it takes to get to that point is not just certainly an idea. And I think in our 20s, some people, it is that, know, you think about it's the idea. That's the gold part. It's like,

No, you need to get people around you. You need to flesh out the idea, what it looks like, what it's going to turn into, the hard work it's going to bring, the sales and marketing. Sacrifices you're to have to make. Yeah. Yeah. For family, fun. so there's just no, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Yeah. Kind of reality check. So I guess, yeah, maybe this podcast will be okay. How do we...

help you manage that expectation.

and actually bring in, then what's the reality of situation and therefore what did Bow and Cartwright need at that time? What did we really need to put around us to help us, one, manage the expectation, but really embrace the reality we're in where we then, mean, thrive sounds like a big word, but yeah, do well in your 20s. Realize this is what this season is and you'll really grow if you can actually step in your 30s and 40s and really...

appreciate it more if you embrace it in your 20s. yeah, mean the first thing that comes to mind, I guess in the exercise of us like, like if I'm telling myself when I'm 23, like one attribute for me would be patience. Like it's like, man, just be patient. Like just because you're six months into something and you don't feel massive progress does not mean that there isn't progress going on. It doesn't mean that God's not refining you and teaching you.

Cartwright Morris (10:30.689)
things and because I mean for me and I know this is true for the for the guys in their early 20s because I know a few of them it's like well it's got to happen now

I mean, especially in a world where like you pull out your phone and you ask AI something and you have an answer now. You know what mean? So I think like, I think there's a, um, there's a certain expectation that's created with like all the resources and technology available to us now that we want to correlate directly into, well, this is how my professional life should work too. Like, you know, it should happen now. Like why am I not the head sales guy right now? I don't get it. You know what I mean? And I was at, I mean, I, I wanted to, I wanted to,

be the guy immediately. I thought, and then naturally because of that, I saw everybody that I worked for as like, like almost like.

in the way. You know what I mean? Right. If they didn't see that, then they were the problem. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And they were just like in the spot that I'm supposed to have. Ah. You know what mean? Like, um. Yeah. And then I think when you now in your thirties and forties, I think you're like, Oh no, I'm, know, you're probably in spots like that. Yeah. And you're like, that's a lot different than what I thought it would be. Yeah. Right. You know I mean? It's not just, uh, yeah.

You know, it's not at all what I pictured when I was 23, 22.

Cartwright Morris (11:59.874)
Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. think the formula for success, contentment, fulfillment, especially through work, we step in our 20s, we think it's the formula is just A plus B equals C. it's just not, you know, I think a lot of my expectation was, I get a job and I'll just show up to work on time. I'll do my job well. I'll get promoted. Everybody thinks I'm great. I'll have time for all these other stuff and I won't have to think of

You know, yeah money won't be an issue I'll go home and not think about my job You know and it won't be a big deal and like, you know, cuz my first job at a college was a sales role For something, you know, I had no business trying to sell And you just kind of like it so it was all I had a little bit more flexible I had flexibility schedule, but I was just You know, I didn't you know, I didn't know what I didn't know, you know It's kind of one of those things where it was like yeah, I was constantly thinking about if I don't really

You know

I got to make these phone calls, email these people, but there may not, if I do, there's not going to be a direct result, you know, especially in a sales role. And you're just like, man, it's exhausting. that's true. Especially in sales. like, there's probably a lot of guys that listen to this that are doing sales jobs. One of my expectations when I got into sales was like, well, the fish just jump in the boat. Yeah. You know I mean? And it almost like, I remember being like aggravated, like why, why am having such a hard time convincing you that you need this?

Like you know, I'm thrilled. I mean that was kind of like But I think that kind of believe that's not just a sales thing. That's probably Yeah, anything like why can't yeah, why can't we get this thing to work or why can't we you know, it should not You know, why are all why are there so many issues? Yeah that happened another thing too and I kind of Getting out of the sports world and this is still true I think with because I know some guys that still play and stuff like that and I think that when you're in

Cartwright Morris (14:01.559)
sports, you know, in college or even professionally, I think that you have an expectation like I did to when you get out of sports, all this stuff will be easy. You know, sports is, you know, when you're on a team and all that stuff like it, but this business stuff is, you know, it's easy because like normally when you're in sports, you've got the business people and stuff like that interested in you and want to talk to you and be a part of it. So you would naturally think like, oh, the business world, that's kind of.

It's easy. It's not. that's a little one-off. But yeah, I think the biggest thing, I want to get you talking on this too, but I think the biggest expectation for me back then and for a lot of guys are I've just got this thing figured out. You know what I I've got this plan in my head and this is how it's going to work.

Which is, yeah, think, yeah, and that, you try, and that's, I'll say here's the, and because my mind is racing, because there's just so many routes we could take this, but one that just initially popped in my head, because I think.

We haven't, one is we haven't really experienced enough of life to develop some, you know, almost like the empathy to understand different experiences. And some people, empathy, what are you talking about? I'm not talking about sympathy or the woe is me empathy on somebody's suffering. I'm meaning like I can put myself in somebody else's shoes. So when we step into an organization, a work culture, and we don't get why our boss doesn't see how great we are.

Understand why they do something a certain way. It's like and What ends up happening our 20s is we either get really frustrated and just bounce from company to company Which inner 20s you can kind of you have some freedom to do that, right? But if we kind of hold on to that arrogance that we got it figured out We can't really develop that empathy that skill set to really understand. Okay

Cartwright Morris (16:14.617)
This guy's the founder of the company or he's been doing this for 10, 15 years. He probably has some lived experience on why he does certain things. It may not always be right. I'm not saying that they're always going to be 100 % right, but there is like to your point of like, kind of realize like, oh yeah, there's just, it's a much more complex situation in running an organization, running a team, being in, know, I mean, obviously I imagine guys in their twenties are working at small businesses with a handful of people or

they're working for big corporations, but it's it's coming back to that place, all right, the person that I'm interacting with daily, how do I develop that skillset of empathy? Because I've seen guys in their 20s who have not done that.

And there's there's such a an anger of resentment or even entitlement that's developed that they just kind of bounce around to different places and they can't get along with people and they wonder why their marriage isn't working and they wonder why you know people you know they you know they're not getting along with co-workers it's like you hadn't developed that muscle of like hey you know if we're gonna have shared experience I gotta understand your experience as well as your mine you know and I think there's that is like the the muscle of like

maybe that first line of defense of trying to You know kill the expectation, but maybe you know just manage it a little bit

Yeah, it's empathy and it's understanding. Yeah, I guess like it's because I mean if you think about it like if you know if you're 23 and your expectation is to make a hundred grand Yeah, you know in some job. I think You have to understand first. I mean, maybe you are maybe you do offer that kind of value But you have to understand like Okay, if I'm be paid a hundred grand how much do I have to generate for this company to justify making some? Yeah

Cartwright Morris (18:09.275)
You don't go to that place. Unless you're in your 20s and you've had, there is a handful of guys I know that went to college and they either worked or they actually started something and they actually get that perspective. you're right. What is the value I'm bringing? Because I think the conversation, I had a great conversation with a, pretty early when I moved back into town,

back to Birmingham, you know, 11 years ago. I had a great conversation with a friend from high school. And he was, he had just moved back to Birmingham because his father-in-law, I think, was sick or something. And he was, you know, he had, was in this niche industry that where he was working had plenty of positions where he lived. And I think it was in North Carolina and moved back here and they didn't really have many positions. And so he was really going around to anywhere and just like, hey, can you give me a chance?

it's

And he said, thankfully, I had one guy goes, I am so sick of people your age telling me, give them a chance. How about you tell me where you're going to add value? And it's like, that's the mindset you, how are you going in every day? Where? And we've talked about this in the podcast. It's like, man, getting that place. That's what I'm even mean in the context of empathy. When I understand somebody else's experience, when I understand where, how the company's gotten there, what are some of the war wounds my managers or the business owners dealt with? You can then go have like a.

Level of all right. All right. This is what the missing piece is where I can add value This is where my voice can be heard and you can kind of and then you start really and one is also like in our 20s early especially early 20s like I'm still figuring my personality. I'm still learning how to manage my emotions and I'm trying to and also like my personality related to my occupation like what is this my skill set? What am I adding value like? More and more like you look like I thought I could fit in it, you know, I could do anything

Cartwright Morris (20:09.403)
In a sense and you're like man Not really, you know, sometimes you got you know, unless you're Coming out of college to be a doctor or lawyer. You really you're kind of figuring it out, you know, so I mean I know a lot of people who Got an accounting degree got a CPA Was in the kind of corporate accounting world and they didn't last very long in that world and but there's there's something that was developed and they kind of realized I don't want to be doing that

the rest of my life, but there's something that I have learned as well as something I found out by myself that can translate to somewhere else. So I don't know, does that answer your question? Yeah, absolutely. I would say that's something that I've tried to grow more more in. And I think my perspective really, I'm 34, but my perspective on just business in general,

Cartwright Morris (21:11.929)
start a company and have it sustain and actually turn a profit is so difficult. No matter what space you're in, no matter what, you know what mean? like after 10 years, 90 % of them are, this is don't work. Right. mean, so like as insignificant as some company or business may seem, you know what I mean? Or like as an unimportant as it may seem, like, uh, to somebody that's in their twenties or, know, as like a boring CPA form.

or a law firm or medical practice or anything, man, it is so hard to get to the point where you're in a position to hire somebody in their early 20s. I mean, you know what I mean? And so like, that's really shifted my whole focus. I mean, it took me a while. It took me a long time because, you know, I mean, I think when you're in early 20s, like you're listening to the podcast about people that have built amazing companies that have sold them for million dollars.

seeing people on TV that are hyper, hyper successful, but you don't really see the medium to small business that is local that...

men took their lumps and figured it out and we're on the brink of bankruptcy five years ago that you don't even know about. You know what I mean? So I think you're right. think just that empathy of like, okay, this seems insignificant, but man, these guys have made it to the point where they could even consider hiring somebody like me. That they want to train and groom. so wouldn't it naturally, when you're seeing, regardless of

what Bo thought when he was 23 that he actually had it figured out. It's like, they're hiring you so that they can train you on how they do things. So going in and figuring out.

Cartwright Morris (23:01.685)
Okay, I'm asking questions. I'm figuring out how the big picture works here and how I slide in to add the most value is a skill that you really have to kind of learn to see it. And I don't know that maybe listening to us talk about it would help, but I don't know what you'd like. What do you think? It feels to me like you just need to kind of experience it yourself. 100%. 100%. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that's why this podcast exists. I want to help

you evaluate in real time because what ends up happening most of us you have a bad experience and then you just completely dismiss it well that's wasn't the right fit they didn't get me you know there's a easily dismissal we step in an environment because I would say what I didn't realize at the time but is pretty common is most organizations yeah they just want to reproduce themselves because there's a level of safety in that you know the owner just

or the founder or he just wants you to do things similar to him because he's had bad experiences of people doing their own thing that's not worked out or they just there is a level of control and in that so like you feeling that and that's why I always here's a way to evaluate

some of your entry level jobs or your jobs in your 20s to think through to help you kind of sustain and grow it. And there always is a shelf life to think in our 20s at certain jobs, but to help you kind of stay. And I always think of it three ways. You got to think of it education, collaboration, or in compensation. And in your 20s, you need to have at least one of those three to really sustain it. So I want to say education is like, what are you learning? Are you actually learning about business, learning about yourself, learning about how to understand people?

relate to people because you realize a lot of business is just really a people thing learning about people and collaboration and sometimes I didn't mean that and just in the context of just alignment of values do you have an alignment with the owners with the organization some level of just engagement to collaborate you like working with the people you're around you because that's a huge thing yeah I mean you'd be surprised I mean places you work and you just don't like anybody there yeah yeah you take it for granted and then the third obviously is compensation are you being compensated for your

Cartwright Morris (25:21.339)
work and your value. So in your 20s, I would say take one of the three. One of the three are there. If you got two of the three, that is amazing. Try to stay there as long as possible. But if you got over three, that might be an opportunity to think, all right, I need to move to something else. Think about something else. But if you've got one of those three, then stick it out. I think once we get our 30s and 40s, right, we need to think about more than just one, obviously, because we got more mouths to feed. But there's a level of like, all right, am I learning something? Is there a level of

collaboration or alignment with this these people or this owner or founder and then You may not name I've been feel like I'm being compensated for the value I'm bringing and a lot of those are just evaluated over time So you won't know until you get in it and then actually just stepping in and going for it. Yeah And so maybe I don't know this is time to pivot unless you have some other thoughts But I was like, alright, so if you this is kind of way to manage within your work, which is eight hours five days a week a just maybe some some more

and then maybe it's transition, all right, thinking about our 20s, what would be something outside of work that we needed? Would that be a good discussion, Well, yeah, I think, so just to add one thing to the three things, one thing that actually just, so...

Like in the first, I'll go back to coaching, because that's what it always is for me. But like it is, it was when I was coaching, I did not picture myself being the guy that I was working for. Like I didn't want to be the guy that I was working for. And so I think another thing too, when you're in your 20s and 30s is, or 20s, sorry, is on top of those three things would be who are you?

who are you working for and can you see yourself?

Cartwright Morris (27:09.357)
being that person, what's their marriage like? Yeah. You know what mean? What's their, what's their compensation? Like you probably don't know, but I mean, you know what mean? Like what, what lifestyle are they living? and do you see yourself doing the same thing? And when I was coaching, that's the main driver that got me out of it was, gosh, I do not want to be divorced and an alcoholic. Yeah. You know, the time I'm, yeah, like I don't want to do that. not that they all are, there's some really good ones, but, a lot of them,

And then...

you as you go from job to job, you kind of figure out like, or sometimes you even wish like, man, I wish that had been more of a focus. Just surround me with, with men or women that like I, that I wouldn't be like, yeah, don't want to overcomplicate it. Yeah. I would say that's probably if you, if you could find that out is like in your twenties, just be at a place where you, yeah, the, you think more in the context of culture and being around great people over

some of the other stuff then being even being in the industry you got your degree in or compensation or you know yeah am I am I in a place where I value I respect the people that I'm with you know I think that's a great great way to look at in our 20s and that's what I was hard to find yeah you know but yeah that's a great way to evaluate hey is this if I could be here long term do I really respect

and love the life they have, not just their work life, but their life they have. Yeah, that's a big one. Because it may be a big factor, the work or the business could be a factor in why they are living the lifestyle they are, know, 10 years ahead of where you are if they're in their mid thirties or you know what mean? It could be like for good or bad. It could be that like these guys have great perspective and like they value the truly value

Cartwright Morris (29:12.365)
relationships and their marriages and their kids and they're going to baseball games and they're doing these things you know what mean like that's what I want to do I want to be there and be present and and if they're not then I would imagine if you're there for another 10 years you won't be either yeah you know I mean and so what do you what do you kind of picture see see your future and what they're currently doing in a way yeah and that's not that's not bulletproof I mean there's plenty of instances where like people are not obviously

You've got some crazy bosses out there and you don't have to be like them, but it is a good indicator when you're young and trying to figure it out, I think. Yeah, yeah. Especially at that point stage of your life, Yeah, yeah. So you talked about outside forces. What do you about that? Well, to me, I was sitting there thinking like, okay, outside of work maybe would have helped me, you know.

engage better at work or be a little bit more was one, you know, think, you know, there's like your 20s was such an emotionally volatile time. Like you're so like you're figuring yourself out. You're kind of you're 25. Your brain's finally fully developed, right? There's just only five. Yeah. So yeah, your funnel cortex, right? Well, that's because you have all the concussions of football.

But thinking about, yeah, just the people. yeah, especially let's say you took a job and you get around some people and you're like, my.

people I do I'd have no nothing in common with and I do not like respect their lifestyle or who they are it's like well I need to go be in a place that I do and so finding and I always think so guys in our in your 20s you really find that in two areas and that's why I brought up the emotional part is like

Cartwright Morris (31:07.505)
We need some emotional stability, but sometimes you find that in pursuing the physical activities or the spiritual activities. So having a men's Bible study, it's a way to look at it, right? But then there's also like, I need to, you know, not everybody's, you know, sports related, but there needs to be some type of physical activity that you're doing with other men. That's just, you know, F3 is a big thing around here, right? But I mean, or you could have, I'm there's soccer leagues, basketball leagues, you know.

You know, my...

I'm trying to think, some guys get into golf, and have a golfing buddies they play with every Saturday. Stuff like that. think that is, that having, there's something about the physical and the spiritual that kind of stabilizes the emotional. And you start really figuring out, all right, what then do I need emotionally? Sometimes what happens, unfortunately, what we do in our 20s is like, well, the missing piece is just a wife. That's gonna solve all my problems is get married.

And let me tell you, just many people that have sat across from me, that's not, that's that's Yeah man, once I get married I won't deal with lust anymore. All this stuff, right? Yeah. Have you heard that story about the guy who's like in his 50s sitting, meeting...

I want to say that I can't remember if this was like just a story I told her and actually a real story of like guy had an older dad in his 80s and he was like 50 sitting there talking with his dad fishing and going

Cartwright Morris (32:41.401)
She's like, dad, when did you feel like you really got over your, you know, not wanting to sleep with other women? That feeling. The dad goes, well, when I'm dead, I'll tell you maybe. It's like, yeah, this is something we got to learn to manage. And then starting out in our twenties and thinking it's just going to happen when we're married is just not the reality. And starting to learn that to do that while we're single is the biggest thing. Learn to, anyway, so I think that,

developing.

that emotional piece, learning to evaluate our emotions, work that really triggers it, other friend groups. So what do we need? Some people would say, you need go get a therapist or have somebody to talk to about that stuff. like, okay, that's good. A lot of times in our twenties, we can't afford that. So there's a way to finding outlets spiritually and physically, I think, that can help stabilize that to the point where then you can start really, hopefully,

eventually find whether it's a business mentor or a personal mentor that you can talk through about it or or eventually you need to pay for therapy. So I agree with you in the way to do that is to I think you just I don't know. I it's kind of this is this is salesy. I don't mean it to be salesy but they're really when you're in your 20s there really is no such thing as a bad

like there's no such thing as a bad connection or a going to get coffee with somebody. You know what mean? Like there's really not and I can tell you from personal experience I've met tons of guys just because really in my late 20s I started to figure this out but it was like hey you know these guys that are I want to be like that are that are ahead of me kind of what we were talking about before they love to meet with young guys for no reason.

Cartwright Morris (34:42.073)
You know what mean? You don't have to try to sell something to them. You can ask, I'd love for advice on something. good people, good men, women too, will be like, yeah, let's meet. You know what I mean? You'll have a higher success rate in getting those meetings than you will, hey, let me tell you about this product that I'm selling. You know what I mean? It's instead like...

Hey, let me, can I just sit with you? Yeah. You know what I mean? And guys that are in their fifties and sixties will love that. I've got a guy, and Carl, you've heard me talk about him a ton, but I've...

There's a guy named, his name's Richard Riley. He's a business owner here in Birmingham. And man, I got connected to him through, I was probably 25, 26. And I got connected to him through like two other people that I knew from doing church stuff and just doing stuff with people, like you're talking about. And somebody told me, were like, hey, you should go talk to this guy, super successful, really, really smart Christian guy.

forget so I was like I'll just call him you know which is a hard thing for people to do yeah you know but I've called him we had coffee and then we've gotten coffee every month for the last probably eight years oh wow and I mean he is the smartest business person I've ever been around

full of wisdom, loves Jesus, and has... Man, I can look back at some of the stuff that he's shaped in me, and, hey, Beau, you're going the wrong way here, or, Beau, you're really not appreciating something that you have good right here, or, hey, you need to slow down, you need to stop going down this path instead of looking at it this way. I mean, he's just shaped so much of how I view a lot of his business, because he's brilliant at business.

Cartwright Morris (36:41.657)
Yeah, but some of it is family too. Like do I need to consider this job offer? Because it looks really enticing and Richard will be like no no no don't do that because of these guys under that guy He's back. You know the name that's like man. I am so thankful right to have him in my life. It's a great guy and so to your point the the finding somebody like that I don't think it's as difficult as maybe it seems

I think mentor has kind of maybe a stigma right, but it's more of a Hey, man, I really don't have a good understanding of what I'm doing. I'm moving forward at a very fast pace I really don't have great control of the wheel Can you come alongside me and can I just bounce stuff off of you just to see your reaction I've done that with you a lot too. You know what mean? Yeah, and there's something too. I think in our 20s. We're so

performance driven in those meetings you're right and it came and maybe this is I'll just give a little thing to be thinking about because you're right there is no bad meaning especially in our 20s just meeting people understanding it's like and this is a great way from like truly become self-aware in your 20s you need to realize this this is like stop being so performative in those meetings like yeah like stop thinking about like I gotta make

sure I address this way, say the right thing, present myself in a way, ask the perfect, this is going back to leadership stuff, you know, we talk about it's like, you know, did I read this book and ask the right questions? It's like, this is an opportunity for you to learn.

to be your authentic self. Showing up, present, you're cordial, value their time, like those things are really what matters. But be respectful, but at same time, I'm not, don't make it this performance that I have to like say all the right stuff, but really you're just like, they would, there are certain, like you said, there are certain men, even women, especially I imagine women with younger women do this a lot more than men maybe, but are really excited about like if you just

Cartwright Morris (38:58.233)
said hey I'm thinking about this what do you think yeah you know yeah yeah I've been here here and here and and and sometimes you can find your people and you find I mean I would say I've done a lot I did a lot of those meetings in my 20s and there was I remember there's an older guy who was retired and I met with and he just talked at me the whole time

did not care. was literally like anything I brought up. He I went left. He went right. And you're just like, you did not understand a word I said. And you kind of leave feeling like, there's something just not right about that. And it's like, yeah, that's probably not somebody I'm going to have another meeting with. And you learn from that. So that was maybe a bad example. I mean, a, you know, example that you learn from that doesn't work out, but there's always bad meetings. Exactly. Exactly. And you're starting to really pro

And like see to me I and and I needed those meetings probably in our 20s I probably my 20s assumed everybody who was You know 20 30 years older me that had all the answers was you know, you know could do no wrong Yeah, you know their ish didn't think and I needed to be in a meeting. We're going

I needed to learn to discern in that moment. Like, oh, that guy just wanted to preach at his little three or four things at me that he thought he assumed who I was. He didn't actually learn to ask questions, help me process. He didn't want to do that, even though that was the context of the meeting. So I was like, oh, I need to learn to discern and I can't go into every meeting naive, but really learn to present. if there's a lot of bones with the

meat then I learned to start spitting out those bones. And you know too, like this has been my experience, you know you'll have something when, because there's a difference between like there are a lot of people out there that just want to hear themselves talk and talk to a 20 year old. That's great. But there are the gold ones, I'll use Richard as an example again, of you know you'll have something when he'll say something that you know is true that you don't want to admit.

Cartwright Morris (41:07.483)
And then when you hear it, you're like, oh, yeah. You know what mean? It's like mine was, you the past company, was a general manager for this super, super small software product. And, you know, we were trying to sell and the guy was working with raising money, doing all these things. Kind of exciting, you know, we're growing, trying to grow. We weren't really growing. I guess we were growing in our mind, but.

the revenue wasn't growing. And I'll never forget, he sat me down one day, because I was just like telling him what was going on, like what's the pathway we should go. And I'll never forget he looked at me and he was like, hey man, this isn't gonna work. And I was like,

you know, ended up being 100 % true. He was about six months ahead of where I was. But anyway, but to your point, like there is, there is the people that just like want to hear them talk that you'll kind of feel maybe not, not icky about, but kind of icky. But then there's the good ones that will tell you something that you know is true that you just don't want to to yourself. And when they say it, you're like, you get that feeling.

But that's when you know you've got something. You know what mean? So here's somebody will go, you know, like.

I was challenged at that meeting and I didn't like it. He's like, that's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. This guy was just talking. He had his like bullet points, generic stuff is what I'm saying. Like he wasn't listening. Like I've been in meetings and one of the best ones to your point of, know, presented a situation or I think something I was thinking about accepting an offer or somewhere or something. And somebody goes, that's stupid. Don't do that. Here's why. And I thought that was the most gracious, kind thing that guy could have

Cartwright Morris (42:54.393)
said in that moment because he want he didn't just dismiss it but he kind of one he gave me permission to go to analyze and go that's not right by him even in his own words and he goes and here's why and giving the why sometimes always is like okay he does care that there's a level of like you and that's where I'm meaning like almost discerning the moments like this guy actually sees me and cares enough to warn me yeah versus someone who just wants to talk at me for their own

benefit. That's the discerning part we're talking about here. It's like some people the packaging may not be great but that's why there's no bad meanings. The packaging is like sometimes when the packaging bad it teaches you to engage. That's where some people like if the packaging you know if the way they say it isn't great and people are like it made me feel good. It's like that's not what it's about. But what were they saying trying to learn to read between the lines. It's like wait till marriage buddy.

You know? Yeah, I mean there's a ton of stuff. I mean gosh, I can't...

I don't even remember all the times that like I've gotten advice in my 20s that didn't make me feel good. Yeah, you know, because again, I had it all figured out, right? You know what mean? But too many times we look at it black and white of like, that was really good or that didn't make me feel good. And it's like this, maybe this is the episode we talked, we talked about this a little bit last week. It's like in those meetings, this is the skillset you have to learn as a becoming a man and anything is like discerning what is happening. It is this person.

really care, you know, really about me or they care really, or are just sharing truth or are they just talking at it? Like learning to kind of discern what's happening in the midst of, especially if you're being challenged. Am I being challenged in a way that is actually, important for me to hear or is this challenged because this guy thinks I'm a generic 25 year old who just needs to hear about, you know.

Cartwright Morris (44:57.263)
You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, anyway.

I know exactly what you're talking about. has no ability to listen or... Yeah. Right. That's where you'll really become the guy that people will want to meet with and get advice for when you're their age. Yeah. Versus somebody who's off alone who just wants to talk at people. This is going to spark something in you because I know I've heard you say this before. But also the other thing too is... Because I've been asked before to like, hey, for a guy in early 20s...

like help me through this thing and I know you have. But it's, don't ask unless you really want the, you know what I mean?

We talked about this on the Leadership podcast, but there's a lot of people out there that like know to ask. Yeah. And they know the attractiveness of appearing humble to... Appearing. Older, you know, people ahead of them or whatever. But they're not really down for the feedback. Yeah. And you got to be both.

in your 20s. You got to be able to ask for it, which is hard. I mean, that's uncomfortable. then you got to be able to hear the feedback and, you know, discern who you're getting it from. know, if it's everybody here knows what we're talking about, but like you have to be willing to.

Cartwright Morris (46:20.745)
Actually accept and yeah move forward with that feedback. Yeah, you've experienced that right? my gosh Yeah, you just like just don't don't yeah, don't come sit down with somebody. Yes, probably experience on both sides I've probably been that guy who like this is the question. I'm supposed to ask. Yeah You know, like I mean, what is it John Maxwell? I've heard him talk or someone told me John Maxwell said that you need to you need to have a notebook in every meeting and write stuff down

And I was a little bit like and I was like, okay, but then I'm like writing down

And I'm not really listening to what he's saying. And I don't have, and then you realize in that moment, like, I'm not a write things down type person. I need to listen, receive, resonate, hear it. And then when I leave, maybe I'll write down what, like after I reflect on it, you know, but I think like in your mind, you're like, I got to do exactly what John Maxwell said to do. You're like, that's, know, you know, but then I've also been in meetings where you are, you feel, you could feel it. The guy is going, Ken.

Can you give me some feedback and really tell me show me some of my blind spots and I'm like One like I don't really know you that well to really understand where you're coming from but two You just interrupted me 30 seconds into me and giving some feedback Just then tell me something else that you're doing or give me a caveat to my feedback and you're like, okay You're not really here to learn. Yeah, you have to be there. Yeah, the the learners posture In your 20s is it much so this is when we're going back to the expectation

I'm I That you sometimes we feel like in our 20s we got to look like we got it all figured out. Yeah, but that Arrogance keeps us from really taking the posture of a learner Yeah, and you really have to be in a posture of learning in your 20s Yeah to really receive what what God has for you what this life has for you Yeah, and it's hard to do it's hard to put it down because you really think all right. I'm I have a job I'm in my 20s. I'm a man now now I have it figured out and I can't let people see that on

Cartwright Morris (48:27.867)
figured out. That's just not accurate. Yeah, in a way you feel like if I show them I don't have it figured out then I lose value to these people. That seems like a logical thing. does, But you learn it's not that way. No, not at all.

And people know you're the only one in the room that doesn't know right that you don't have to that yes exactly I've been I've been that guy like I know exactly like I Have been the guy in a room where I'm the only guy that doesn't know what I don't know Everybody else sees me except for me

I've been that like I know exactly how that feels or what that looks like. Yeah, and it never ends. Well, like you just feel You're humbled. Absolutely, which is a good thing, but you get humbled really quickly Yeah Yeah, and so I think the other the only one I had written down that's really along the same line I think is is having the willingness to fail. I wish I had had

more willingness to fail like instead of being like well I can't do this because I don't have it all yeah shaped up I kind of wish in some ways back then I would have just done it anyway yeah and possibly have failed and been able to learn from it yeah you know just like if it's like in your 20s it's like well I can't put myself in that position because if I put myself in that position then people are gonna know I don't really know what I'm talking about and

then I'm not gonna be this, I don't know. You know I'm saying? You gotta have some willingness to put yourself out there. The first thing that pops in my mind is presenting or demoing a product in sales to somebody or trying to do something and it's like you don't feel fully ready, but just do it. Yeah, that was a big thing I learned. Thankful I had a mentor in my late 20s who was

Cartwright Morris (50:33.317)
to just kind of push me out there. And I lived in the mindset, like, I had to have everything buttoned up before I could really try it. And it's like, sometimes the most fun is just letting it rip, you know? It's just like, and just kind of figuring it out. it just, yeah, was, know, and obviously all of us in those moments, we start realizing, we start really processing and going, okay, maybe I do need more structure to really start taking risks.

Some people go, I didn't realize I didn't need as much and I needed to be kind of learning on the fly. We all need a little bit of that, but there's like a level of understanding personalities and then you can lead others better because you understand what they need in that moment. But you're right in our twenties, like go ahead and just fall forward. Yeah. You know, go ahead and just trip over your own feet, trying to figure it out. cause you end up learning a lot. yeah. You know,

And then you're more prepared the next time. mean, it's really like the only way to be fully prepared. I had a thing probably about two years ago with the company. just talked about the software company and we got selected to like pitch in this big competition to an auditorium full of people. There's probably 200 people there. if you want, I think we got five minutes to present and if you won, got, you know, seed money for your company or whatever. Right. So it's awesome. Like eight other companies. And I worked for a guy that was really, really good sales guy, but he was

wasn't local. And so he was like, man, I'll fly down there. I can do it. I'll do other stuff. And I remember feeling like, okay, this is something that I'm really, really going to be nervous about, but I got to do it because it's the experience I'll get from that will be really, really great. It ended up going well. We didn't get the money, but I'm so thankful that like I did it. And man, for

three weeks before that competition, was like, yeah, not sleeping. So nervous. You know what mean? I mean, everything hinged on this thing and like I'm preparing, I'm over prepared. I'm doing all this stuff. but I remember walking out on the stage and literally like almost just being so nervous. Yeah. And, afterwards you're like, man, I'm so glad I did that. Yeah. Cause I learned to like prepare and to do these things.

Cartwright Morris (52:58.499)
and to be nervous and like not be super like confident what I'm about to do but doing it anyway it's almost like a

I don't know, it's almost like, because I mean, what you'll find, especially in your 30s and 40s is like, man, a lot of people are like, they don't have it all figured out. Like you probably thought they did when they were in early 20s. You know what I mean? I mean, there's still people in 50s still figuring it out, right? You know? And I think that's where it is. It's like, you won't know until you try. So I imagine if you went and did that now, Bo, you'd be, wouldn't be near as nervous. You're probably more confident on stage, but you got to do the experience. You got to do it before you can actually like really.

Yeah, no, and so you won't know until you try yeah I think that's what I wish I have someone told me in my 20s and so therefore I probably then stepped in my 30s and did a lot more riskier stuff than I should have but at same time it like some of those kind of Yeah, the lumps you received by just kind of figuring it out and I realized like I am probably more of a learner learning by doing yeah, I'm not a classroom learner I should have known that from my school grades, but I realized that now is like yeah, I am more of a learning by

doing type person so I probably just need to go do it. Yeah so another football story. Do I have two minutes for this? So the guy worked for out when I was at Sanford coaching his name was Russ Callaway and he's the OC at Tulane now he's at Florida last year. He knew he's doing great really great guy. He was a GA for Alabama when Saban was there. So kind of along the same line it's so funny because you hear the Saban stories are great because he's exactly what you would think.

And there's a camp every summer that they would have for the youth.

Cartwright Morris (54:42.297)
I mean, kids, small kids. And they would do these different stations of drills, right? Every single year Saban would hover on this one drill and everybody knew that whoever was running that drill, he was going to cuss out and yell at in front of everybody. Not if they did it right, they were still getting it. If they were doing it wrong, they were still getting it. He was so regimented that he knew at this camp, I'm at this station and I'm chewing out whoever's doing the drill.

So like Russ, I always admired this because Russ was like, I made sure that I was the one coaching that drill. Because I wanted to be the one that he saw and he was like, dude, I always wanted to be the guy that could say that Nick Saban cussed me out in front of these eight year olds. I've always thought about that because it's like, dude, don't shy away from uncomfortable situations or like, dude, put yourself in the

Put yourself in the fire and take your lumps. Right. You know what mean? I've always thought about that. I was in my early twenties when Russ told me that story and I was like, there's something to that. Like, you know what mean? Like I want to be the guy that he, yeah. But isn't that funny? I mean, he, was so regimented that he would yell at this guy. If was 25, I would have a hundred percent been like, I do not want, please do not put me there. Please. don't, I don't. But but now I'd be, you're right. I want the story. Now I want to be that. Yeah. I want the lump. I want that.

I got shoot out by Nick Saban. Yeah, and then he said it's cool because he said like two days later Saban had forgotten something at his house so he came in the GA office and he saw Russ and he threw Russ his keys and was like hey go to my house and pick this thing up like he picked Russ to do that after he so it's almost like you can gain respect just putting yourself in the middle and so I don't know I always I always think about that like even when I'm talking to guys in the early 20s it's like dude get yourself in position to get y'all

Yeah, yeah, you know, we take your fail specifically. Yeah, I mean I mean going back to Saban because it's too awkward I was talking about saving Yeah, AJ McCarran story when he was first in it on the team or he was his second year and he was kind of up for the starters job and Saban put that him with third team he was supposed to be getting first team reps he's put with the third team and

Cartwright Morris (57:10.069)
He was pissed about it and he got he and they were getting killed by and they played 13 verse first team defense Of course, you know, they're getting destroyed Especially by you Yeah. Yeah. my goodness. Yeah, like NFL guys everywhere Yeah, and so he you know and he gets done with practice and you know He's all mopey during moping after and he gets called the Saban's office and he and he's like So today we tested you on your leadership ability and you failed miserably

So it's like he had this opportunity to prove, hey, we're going to get our butts kicked, but I'm going to make this work.

And he didn't do that. And that's what the lesson that Saban was trying to teach is like, yeah, it's like learning from failure. Like put yourself in positions to fail. Learning how to do that. Because you're being watched. Because that's the thing about college. You're being watched. Two, like in college, like the scenario of being on a football team. You're kind of put in those positions involuntarily too. And you're going to have to do that in your 20s voluntarily. But we generally shy away from that. And I think you have to learn in your

20s start doing that voluntarily and they choose treat it as an opportunity and I think that's where we kind of we miss in our 20s. I mean even if you if you yeah if it doesn't go well if it doesn't I mean people aren't gonna typically put a lot of pressure on a guy in their early 20s to like make sure

Whatever you're doing called a presentation or whatever that it goes perfectly No there I mean when you're putting somebody in the position to do that You're not evaluating necessarily their ability to deliver it perfectly and answer all the questions perfectly. You're being evaluated on like how you prepare or how you respond like when something doesn't go as planned in the middle of something like it's it's You know what mean? Like you're not being evaluated on your ability to like yeah to nail it. Yeah, so that's

Cartwright Morris (59:13.339)
I think that's for the listener out there to really evaluate who's really trying to think about can I really work for this person or work for this person long term. I think a leader that does that is one that's worth to be trusted because they're wanting to put you in situations where you grow. Where the one who is like terrified of you failing

of you making them look bad is probably not a guy you want to or woman you want to work for. That's a good point. So that is a great point that you made, Beau, of like, think of that scenario where that's happened. It's like, this person trusts me, but they really, they want me to be in position to grow and learn from being in almost impossible situations where I'm not going to thrive because they want me to learn versus a leader who will never put me in that position because they're terrified of how I might make them look. Yeah. And so. Yeah.

That's a, yeah, those two, those are two different types of leaders. And I think that's a way to evaluate and think about your own boss or your own manager in your life right now is to kind of go, okay, are they putting me in places where they, I can learn a lot or they trying to shield me constantly, not for my benefit there. Yeah, that's a great point. That's a good litmus test for real. Like it's a, you know, I mean, and don't ever be like, Hey, I'm just in my twenties. It's okay if I screw up. No, don't say that. But it is, you know I mean?

mean do what you can to succeed. Show respect, prepare as much as you can. yeah, that's a good point. expectation, going back to that expectation, don't expect to be hit a home run. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's one last thing I wrote down that I really want to get your thoughts on real quick. Are we up on time kind of? Yeah, yeah, we're kind of over it. Okay, all right. So this will be real quick because it segues kind of really what this podcast is about. The biggest thing for me when I think about

We talked about the professional, right, already. What you're doing at your job, all that stuff. But the biggest thing for me, and this is a common thing that we talk about, that you and I have talked about for years, is in my 20s, man, I had to, in my mind, with my relationship with Jesus, I had to strive and perform just in the way that I would do in whatever job I happened to be in at that point so that He would accept me and love me. And I've learned so much over the past couple years, especially,

Cartwright Morris (01:01:32.758)
a lot with you, especially getting into my 30s, I'm like, man, I am not, there's nothing I can do for him to accept me more or for him to love me more.

That is probably the biggest thing that's evolved over the years and I still struggle with it, it's, especially in my 20s, was like, man, I have to do my Bible study time every morning at 6 a.m. And if I don't, then the whole day's a wash. Because I did not check the first box. I have to make sure I'm at church every Sunday. Of course go to church, but you know I'm saying. It was the performance mindset.

that like consume me really throughout my twenties with my walk with Jesus. And there's nothing you can do man, like it's you're not. Yeah, I mean it's you're not.

There's nothing that you can do to make him accept you more. life or death. Yeah. so, yeah, I mean, earlier I mentioned about like scheduling these activities in your twenties outside of work, because I think they'll serve you. These things will add value. They're not the things to get the thing. Right. And so that's where I go back. Paul in Galatians five talked about the opportunity for the spirit of the flesh. There's the use the word in Greek is actually an offensive

military position. Think of that, that your position in Christ gives you an opportunity to live life to the fullest or to approach things and not be fearful of failure, not be fearful of missing out, not being fearful of others, what others think or say about it, especially your boss, that you can actually go about and actually try really hard and fail and be content because you know at the end of the day that Jesus loves me. Period. The end.

Cartwright Morris (01:03:28.635)
Like, you know, he's with me. know? Little I walk through the valley and shout out, death, you are with me.

Meaning the shadow of death, meaning it's not death itself. It may suck, it may be terrible. Meaning it's got the shadow of death, but it ain't death. So that's where you can really take on life and see as more things as an opportunity, an offensive military position because of who he is and what he's done for you. So yeah, great point, Dan, on both. Anyway, all right, thank y'all for listening.