The Powerful Choice of Growth Before Purpose | Ep 166

This episode dives into a transformative shift in how men should view their 20s—moving focus from finding a singular purpose to embracing growth and development. Hosted by Cartwright Morris, it challenges common notions about purpose, career, and fulfillment and offers practical insights on navigating the early stages of adulthood with intention and clarity. 

In this episode: 

• Why making your twenties about growth rather than purpose leads to more fulfillment
• The misconception of purpose as a career or occupation, and how to redefine it
• Tim Keller's purpose framework: affinity, ability, opportunity, and its application to your life
• The importance of being active in waiting, not passive—learning through hardship and discomfort 
• How to identify pain points as indicators of purpose
• The dangers of tying purpose solely to vocation, and why outward value matters
• The significance of presence, confidence, and now in building success, inspired by Michael Jordan’s mindset
• Practical advice for young men on how to approach their first jobs, career shifts, and learning from failure
• The role of responsibility, sacrifice, and trusting God's timing in your journey

Timestamps: 

00:00 - Why your twenties should be about growth, not just purpose
02:00 - Rethinking purpose beyond occupation and emotional fulfillment
03:29 - Tim Keller's framework: passion, ability, opportunity
04:30 - Embracing hardship and difficult situations as growth opportunities
05:45 - Learning about yourself through experience and environment
07:05 - Defining purpose: beyond job titles and passions
08:35 - Starting with pain points to discover purpose
09:37 - How hardship reveals what you’re called to do
10:39 - The importance of outward value in finding purpose
11:49 - Shifting focus from occupation to contribution and growth
13:12 - The role of performance and showing your value at work
15:11 - The importance of contribution over entitlement in employment
17:23 - Putting yourself in uncomfortable situations for growth
18:49 - Should you chase passion or accept necessary responsibilities?
22:23 - The significance of presence and being in the moment, inspired by Michael Jordan
25:16 - Balancing waiting and responsibility: active engagement in God's timing
28:55 - Learning from failure and hardship as preparation for future purpose
36:29 - The myth of perfect passion and the value of work as a form of service
45:32 - Moving from purpose as self-fulfillment to discovery and relational alignment
48:52 - Trusting God's process and focusing on relationship over achievement

Resources & Links: 

• Tim Keller - The Reason for God
• Jim Collins - The Hedgehog Concept
• Michael Jordan - The Last Dance

Connect with Cartwright Morris:

• LinkedIn
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• Join THE FORGE

Note: The primary message is that purpose is a process of discovery rooted in growth, responsibility, and outward contribution, rather than a one-time revelation or occupation. Embrace discomfort, serve others, and seek to understand God's overarching plan through steady, active engagement in your journey.

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Transcript

0:00

don't make it about finding your purpose. truly make it about growth. And when I say growth, that means do things you wouldn't normally do. Find out what you need in life, but take risks. Put yourself in challenging situations. When I say, get better at the waiting process, think about, what do I need to know about myself? And the only way I'm going to know is if I put myself in certain scenarios, certain hard situations. if you're a man in your twenties or thirties looking for a men's group, Bible study, to discuss and encounter stories that God uses in the book of Genesis to forge men, got something for you. August eleventh at six forty five. at the Center for Executive Leadership here in Birmingham. The link is in the description. this is not a sales pitch, just here to come find out more about you Finding more about what what I'm doing with the Forge. if you're ready for this full experience please go to minorforge.com and check out the Forge program. it's a combination, a weekly group with the podcast and monthly one-on-one meetings designed exactly for men who want to grow who they are and where they're at. So hopefully see you August eleventh. well once again, we're we're grateful that that y'all are listening, whoever's listening.~ hey mom. Thanks for listening.~ We do appreciate y'all's support.~ got a great episode today 'cause it's something I've been I think about and I wish someone told me.'Cause I I'm I would say a lot of what we're doing here is and and maybe I won't speak for you Bo, but I'll speak for myself.~ there's so much you know, for lack of a better term, waiting in your twenties. You're you're waiting for whatever's next. Marriage, financial stability, personal growth, all the above, right? Leadership opportunities. It's all that is waiting and in sp so therefore in the waiting, you know, w how I would love I wish I did my had my waiting time better. That season my life. And so it's a lot of what I do my work is how do I help men in their twenties, early thirties really utilize that time.'Cause I don't feel like I use it as well as I could have. So anyway, that's a little bit of a overall, but it let me today some so maybe today that I wanna give some context to that is t so today really is so many conversations and it's so centered around career, which is so much of this is so far beyond career, but is stop making your twenties about finding your purpose. I have too many conversations around that topic. I've created content around that topic because I've heard it so much. But now I'm like I think back to my own story is sometime you know Let me just address this elephant in room. Okay. You find your purpose. As someone who f I will say found my purpose at twenty-nine. So a lot of work comes from that. Then you gotta like basically create where either create and build for you know, basically find the platform to pursue your purpose. At least that's from for me what happened. I think so many times we think in that in the c a career context. But to me, like I felt this calling at twenty nine years old and feel like all right, this is my purpose. And I knew I kinda had a general avenue when I take it, but you know, eleven years later now I'm still still figuring out, like, navigating, all right, well how does this bring the most impact? How do I get people in the room? How do I get paid for it? Right?~ I love Tim Keller's line and people have used other language ~ about this. I'm trying to think the there's another term for it ~ that Jim Collins used. the hedgehog concept. Tim Keller's a different terminology, but he he it's basically similar to the Jim Collins one, but it's ~ your purpose is affinity, ability, and opportunity. So what do I have affinity w what what do I have a passion for and I'm excited about? What I have the ability to actually execute, that I'm actually good at it, right? And then opportunity, whereas in there is a space to step into it and get paid for it. Right. And so for me, yeah, that was like thirty years old coming Here in Birmingham, Alabama. The center, I had an opportunity, the ability, more and more as I stepped into it, I realized I had a great ability to help men navigate, be a guide, as a certain, an advocate, however language you want use for it, and as well as a passion, you know. So like, yeah, all of that to say it's like you don't need to focus the big idea for this episode, I would say, is like don't make it about finding your purpose. truly make it about growth. And when I say growth, that means do things you wouldn't normally do. Find out what you need in life, but take risks. Put yourself in challenging situations.~ When I say, yeah, like get better at the waiting process, think about, all right, so in the waiting, what do I need to know about myself? And the only way I'm going to know is if I put myself in certain scenarios, certain hard situations. You know, for me it was move it was moving across the country.~ put me in a place where I didn't really know anybody. You know, I could easily slide into the cruise control button, so I needed to kind of almost like jolt my system. But that's not for everybody. But you there's always like I think when Yeah, you make it about this, you're so when you make it about purpose, you solely fixate on possibly one you foc focus on like from an occupational standpoint and two you focus in the context of like what makes me feel good if that's the language I'm looking for. What what like feels good to me and you're like you know, your brain just developed at twenty five. You you there's there's things you need to learn.'Cause I mean, if I what felt good for me at twenty five would not does not make sense now. Like I was still figuring out my personality, my likes and dislikes. I was figuring out, you know, I would have thought, you know, me being a big ti big shot CEO of a or a you know, a pastor of a church was what I was my passion. It's like I I don't need to be in a high energy constant moving environment. That's just not how God wired me. Mm-hmm. And you know, more and more I need this type of pacing and stuff like that. So ~ yeah, anyway. Then you just you just so much that you have to learn in your twenties. And so when you focus on like how do I get better at a craft, how do I grow spiritually? How do I become a ~ better leader, a better person, a more better father, husband, friend, son, right, all the above, you know, how do I add value to others? Thinking around those lines and not just say, okay, what's my purpose? What's my purpose? Because it does become so occupational focused and so emotional focused. And how do I put that aside and go, okay, I just need to grow. I need an environment where I can grow. So I think that that's just kind of the the big idea and we'll we'll maybe unpack more of this and I can share even more of my story, even your story, Bo, about how like how does that really manifest? Yeah. So anyway. Yeah. Well I think it's important too, like hearing you said that, I guess in my mind I go to ~ it's probably important to define terms. So how would you how would you define like purpose?'Cause I my mind immediately went to I think it's too strongly tied, ~ at least for me in my twenties it was Purpose equals what I do for a living. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? How I make money, how I provide. And ~ I think as I get into my thirties, ~ it's not necessarily that. Like and I think the whole, you know, the the not that it doesn't but still stay a priority to like pursue I guess in my mind it would be purpose is the the life or the thing that God has called you to do. Right. And nowhere in that definition does it say this is like a type of job. Yeah. You know, and I and I didn't realize that in my twenties. I always thought like, well, I have to do what like I love to do. Yeah. You know, and then I had a kid in my early 30s, and I'm like, I don't care what I do anymore. You know. I I gotta bring home the bacon. Fed happy, yeah, yeah, so thriving. You know, you spend so much energy in your 20s trying to define it at in a career. career and ~ and then when you get into your thirties and have kids it it changes anyways. Right. You know, so anyway, yeah, how would you define purpose? Is that kind of what you Well so this is why so passion is a big one, right? And we do attach so much emotion to that. But I would put that in the top three so but I would put it the last. You know, though a lot of times when I meet with people is I'm helping them process and is you have to start with a pain point. Like if you have a The one yeah, I would call it calling, but also start start with the pain point. What is a pain point in your life? It was almost like ~ where it's you know, I I I I I think back to a conversation where I had with like a a mentor or someone I looked up to and they're and it was just like me getting really animated about something that really bothered me and And it was just the conversation led to them just saying, Well, that's just the way it is. And my immediately, like in my spirit, I want to be like, what the blank are you talking about? And I think that's where we have to get to that point where we're constantly feeling this level of resistance, frustration in a certain area. And you know, you we look at people who have ~ built really great things. It's like they had that that pain point in their own life, they saw it. in others and they saw like a commonality of like This is the way it is, but it shouldn't be so. How do I change that? Right? How do I adjust that? How do I what do I need to create to solve that problem? Solving being a solution-oriented mindset. So I think that's so, but you gotta live some life. And so that's part of the reason why we're having this episode and this conversation is like that that's like you really have to experience some hardship, some pain point places like Saint Jude that are seeing, you know, kids have cancer. Like that's a massive pain point. How do we solve this problem? This is a problem. They created an entire hospital focused on that, like right? And it's become, you know, nationally known as well as world known, right? So it's like how do you then thinking about in that context in a smaller level maybe in your own life, but then it's like, okay, therefore if there's a pain point in my own life, then in it's a solution for certain people.'Cause it's gotta be I think to that's why I wanna the problem with occupation focused thinking is it y you're thinking more of my fulfillment. Yeah. And ha when I r if God truly calls us your own purpose in your own life, right? There has to be some outward th how am I adding val that's why I'm meaning like think in the context of growth, especially in how I add value to people, because that's really where you're gonna find your purpose is I I know like for me my skill set is sitting here helping a man discern his current life and understanding and give him a direction moving forward. Like You know, that that ha that's my value. That's what God put me on this earth for. You know, is to help men do that. And so learn but that started with a pain point in my own life, seeing it in others, and then developing a skill set around it. And so I think that that you gotta start thinking outward focused, l how do I help others? Me affecting added value. And then and then the last one, yeah, I gotta I think you gotta be excited about it. I think that both of those two things gotta then lead to like I have an excitement, a passion. So I think that but too many times we start there. Anyway. If that did that f define it pretty good. Yeah, I think so. I think I covered it. Well and also I I think when you make it to occupation focused, so like hey, I've got to match what this desire and perfectly with what I do. Yes. Then I think you put a lot of pressure on on your job and then also who you work for.'Cause because it then that and that was my story. Like it 'cause then you kinda you put that responsibility on if I'm working for Cartwright, then it's like, hey Cartwright like Yeah. naturally, you know, maybe it's not ~ so forward in your mind, but eventually it'll be like, hey, this isn't fulfilling me at the rate I need it to and it's his fault. It's my boss's fault or her fault. And and that's happened to me multiple times. Yeah. But I didn't ~ I don't know, I wasn't able I wasn't ~ you know, it I mean it turns out the problem was me the whole time. I mean there were great jobs, great people. But you just w it there there comes added pressure when you just make it about a job. Yes. That usually doesn't mix well with a job. Yeah. Does that make sense? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, 'cause you need to show up to the job and it's like, all right, how do I do my job well and really be a part of this machine? Yeah. And improve this place. But most people it's like Well, I'm constantly doing things I don't wanna do or I don't get excited about. Yeah. Or I'm just killing time. Yeah. Or my boss is not doesn't hear me or Yeah. And you don't realize like ~ Yeah, like this is somebody else this could be especially if you're in a small business or a meeting like this is somebody else's dream that I'm helping fulfill, not mine. So why do I focus on they're not fulfilling my dream. Well th they're the one who took all the risk. Yeah, right. You know, especially hiring your butt. Yeah you know, you naive twenty of your old you cost money. Yeah, you cost money. Yeah. And so how thinking through how do you add value. I think I've told this story a million times on this podcast maybe. But it was a gr I I just remember a a friend of mine or a really acquaintance from high school that I hadn't seen in ten years had coffee with him. and he he moved here. completely different career. transitioned and couldn't find a job in that career, had to move home back here to Bur to Birmingham and then star and then started interviewing and kinda went around different interviews and kind of s did the what we mo all kinda do. I just need someone to give me a chance. And he had one guy who literally was a very it was a a powerful moment. I wish more ~ we need develop more leaders who can kind of brush aside everything and be more present in the conversation. This is so this but this leader did that and he just went I'm really tired of people your age telling, just give me a chance. I wish you came in here and gave me a breakdown of how you're adding value to this place. Yeah. Yeah. And he said that completely shifted his mindset. And he started really thinking about getting a job, it's like, ~ what interests me? Where do I where does my skills really translate and stop to like, just give me a chance. I gotta pay the bills. I got kids to feed. Help me out, please. And it's like No, that's not really the way you need to process this. And so that's why I'm keeping harbor back ha where am I adding value to the world around me. Yeah.'Cause it's ~ when you say I just need a chance, what it what I hear, and it's maybe not right, but what I hear is I promise if you hire me I won't screw this up. Yeah. Yeah. Where in in turn you need to it's the the person hiring you is already thinking, Okay, gonna spend X so that we can make Y. Right. Which is usually three or four times times whatever, sometimes more. Whatever you're being, you know, paid. Yeah. So how do you how do you talk the same language as the person that's yeah trying to make the decision whether they bring you or not? And it's certainly not just give me a chance. Right. Which is a great negotiating tactic. Yeah. Like like think of year all right, the guy blunt like just reluctantly gives you a job And then a year later you you'll come in and ask him for a raise and he's like I thought this is what you just wanted to change. Right, right, right. Yeah. What do you mean? No ~ and so thinking well, if but if I'm adding value to that place and they saw that value and they saw it really affecting I mean, I hate to you know, sometimes it is the bottom line, sometimes it's the culture, sometimes it's just even the the stress level of that boss went down and they go, there's there's value this person has. It may not be strictly bottom line, but I see it in other areas. You know, hopefully there's a and you know, people can pick apart whether it's leaders that actually do that or not. I don't you know. But when you come in there and you show your value, then a hundred percent ~ yeah, year later you have more bargaining chip and go, Yeah, I'd like a race. Yeah. So anyway. And the more the more you can generate return or or less stress on an owner than the more leverage you have. But I guess you know, I mean the whole point of this though is just not tying it all to an occupation, right? Yes. Yeah.~ but I think it's just super easy to I think when you're you know and you're in college and you're what are you eighteen to twenty two, somewhere in that range in college, usually, ~ you're constantly thinking about ~ you know, what am I gonna do after this? Like what how am I gonna make money? How am I gonna use what I'm studying here to do something after? You know, and ~ and so I think naturally we're just conditioned to just be thinking constantly about what job it is. Yeah, what's you know 'cause you just what's next. Yeah, because I mean I mean our I mean y you have to have a job. Yeah.'Cause you will have bills. You know, so you have to have a job. But I think in terms of this, I think what I wish I had done more in my early to mid to late twenty whatever is ~ put myself in more uncomfortable situations. Yes. And I think one thing that I learned is ~ when put in an uncomfortable situation to ~ to show like extreme confidence, no matter if you are or you aren't. And I don't know if that's like great advice or what, but ~ that was just one of the many things I learned, especially in coaching. But ~ But yeah, I don't even know where I was going with that. But but but but the point is like ~ or the question is so what should the approach be? Because it is super important to find a job. Yeah. so what should the approach be? I is it always is it wrong to try to match your passion with a job? Or it's not wrong, but it's it's just not the It should be the main problem. It should be the main problem. So then what else ~ So what else should should a twenty three year old, twenty four year old getting out of school, ~ what type of expectation should they have in their first job? Yeah. Well then how do they pursue their passion possibly outside of the job. Yeah, you know? Yeah, I yeah, well that that is probably a whole nother episode is like, all right, just yeah, finding time to pursue it, figure that out. But part of it is getting in the job, you then start figuring it's like, I don't wanna be in this type of culture, I don't sometimes we learn by process of elimination, unfortunately. I don't wanna you know, for me it was like that's true though. You know that's hundreds of true you know, y you know, like In my mind there was always ~ back I could go work for a church. You know, that might be and like, you know, just even volunteering at churches and some bigger ministries you realize like, ~ no, I don't wanna that. You know, like that kind of stuff. Like I don't I don't think that's an environment for me. Yeah. So you kinda think through ~ process elimination a lot of ways. So that's why even I really encouraged from what you said, just put yourself in unconscious situations because you just kind of and a lot of it is just working for different types of leaders. Being in different cultures, environments, doing a different people, and you just get different perspectives. But the the mindset really should be so, okay, like I said, before, like, all right, how do I grow? And I and I feel like the most success, and really it is like can you gotta consume content around that. I keep coming back to this thought and so maybe this is what I'll flesh out is probably every year since 2020 or maybe every six months I have just watched parts of The Last Dance. Maybe for nostalgia reasons or but there is just something to learn about Michael Jordan. There's something here. I mean obviously like I'm not gonna promote him as a family man or a guy outside, but there is something about his mindset about success that is just so fascinating that people still talk about him today. Like players even today saying he had he just had an aura. But there was something that they said at the beginning of the last episode of that was like Michael Jordan had like Buddhist level like presence to him. Like people that just try their whole life to be present. And Michael just had naturally. Like he's not worried about the missing a shot that he hadn't taken yet. And there was like anytime the moment got so big for a lot of people, he was like you know, just so present in it in the moment. And so I would say going back to the college thing, that was something I wish someone just sat me down, like, man, those four years, do what you need to do but enjoy it. Right? Learn learn to be present, but in your mind we're so trained like What's next? Yeah, and also I gotta learn to be responsible. I gotta learn how to you know, so and I'm not maybe in a role responsible now. How do I learn to be you know? There's just all these like Fears of what could happen, how I'm gonna mess it up, you know, what type of person I'm gonna be. And you're just like learning to be present in that moment, appreciate it, take take what's in front of you, steward it well. I mean that's why Jesus said be faithful with little, can be faithful to much, because you learn to just go, what's in front of me? What have you given me, God? And so I think that's the mindset. So, like, all right, what you know, what interview, especially all right, you're stepping out college, what interviews have I been given? All right, I've sent my arrest. to these places. I've gotten a degree in this. Let me just see what happens. All right, who's giving me an interview? All right, I'm gonna steward that well. I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna bring myself. I'm gonna be cordial. I'm gonna be nice. Like and then it's like next level. Like stop worrying about the and this is this is probably I'm talking to myself more. Stop worrying about three four four or five steps down the road. Yeah. Live learn to be present. And I I I bring up the last dance thing is this is what made Michael Jordan so successful. And you're like, ~ And like the the his the ~ author of his biography kind of said like You know, his gifting, yeah, he could jump high, he could he was insanely athletic, but at the same time this was gifting, like no matter how big the moment, he was so in it. He was present. So learning how to do that at a young age, you know, and God wired certain of us all to be to do that better than others, but learning how to do that of just take what's given to you. okay, I've gotten this job opportunity. Well, it's like a ninety percent commission. Okay. I've been I've been in one of those jobs before. It's ~ not easy. So may well for a lot of us, including myself, probably it was a good lesson, like, I don't need to be in a sales role where it's my primary form of income. So learning, okay, all right, but I was like, all right, what how to be successful in this area? Who do I need to talk to? Just learning ~ about yourself, learning about growth, learning where do my best fit. Yeah, there's all I think that's kind of the mindset to focus on. And ~ yeah, I mean one you know I think is there's a lot of this research is even just in your interviewing and sh process is thinking about the culture, the organization, you know. Ask that question. What what are some of the employees saying about that their the organization? Is it a good place to work? Is it a good place to grow? Is it you know place that really is a is accepting of you but yet challenges you to get better? You know, so that's that's yeah. Is the is there a high turnover rate, you know? There was a place I I worked at that really liked the people but when they you know, you know, people are there no longer Than two or three years, like there's a reason for that. You know. So and it's more than just one reason, usually. Yeah. yeah, for sure. Yeah. this is an interesting question for you because it kind of flips it a little bit. Yeah. So I I guess what I think, you know, you you can listen to this two different ways. Like if I'm if I'm 25 and I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, okay, so I just need to kind of you know, relax more about completely connecting what my purpose is, my passions are, with how I make a living. Right? Sometimes they can interconnect in certain ways, but sometimes they will not necessarily you know, whatever, but you can find it other places. So what do you say to the guy that is like, Okay, well, I'm just gonna wait on God to do this And to other people it's like, no dude, you seem like you're avoiding responsibility. Right. So Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like how do you 'cause it's two sides of the spectrum. The one side, which was me, was putting insane pressure on myself to find this purpose fulfillment in what I did every day at my job. Right. You know? And then the opposite side of the spectrum is, Okay, well I'll just be super still. Yeah. You know, God says to be still. Yeah. I'll be super still and just kinda wait on this. Yeah. So what do you say to those people? Well well the you know so th the word in the Psalms for waiting that actually means like ~ It's a cord being stranded together. It's a very active w actually an active word. cool. Almost so it's like so what it so when you you know, time So the weighting is actually I'm s trying to put myself in entanglement with God. Okay. So therefore there's an active movement. So when you go so in waiting is okay, you gotta pay the bills. There's still like Yeah. You have to learn responsibility. I mean, nobody wants to trust someone who has never had any responsibility. It's funny you mentioned that I had a story I remember I was in New York City with a minimum mentor of mine, Andy Mason. Mm-hmm. And ~ he was speaking at a ministry ~ one morning. And this guy, he's he's s somewhere in Europe. I remember he had an accent. He could speak English. And he had been living in New York for six months and he started like talking to me and Andy about how he is going to have this great ministry and he's God's called me to serve thousands and it's gonna be great. And Andy was like, So what are you doing now? Well, right now, you know, God's called me this, so I'm ~ I've been sleeping on people's couches and haven't taken a job because I'm waiting for God to to give me millions to do this. Yeah. And he's like, Okay. That's exactly what I'm asking about. So you've inconvenienced all these people jumping from couch to couch, using their goodwill for you to like wait for God to give you the ~ money, like but you're not tr you hadn't been that's going back to the f being faithful with little thing, like, okay, what's been given to you right now? Just do that. Well, and you're not and you're not by y your definition earlier, you're not you're not putting yourself in a position to grow because you're not doing anything. Yeah. Right? I mean, so this guy maybe it's the best advice for him is go do something and fail at it. Yes. Fail royally. That's going back to the pain point. You gotta go through something to actually want to do it. You can't steer a boat unless it's moving forward, right? You told me that before. God uses a moving vessel. Yeah, yeah. So ~ yeah, I always think about that. And and I guess you you probably do see it a lot in ministry, you know, with people that want to go into ministry and ~ but I think you do see it a lot with you know, with with people that you know we probably grew up with that whose parents maybe have some money and~ it's like, well I'm waiting on I'm I'm trying to find my calling, I'm trying to find myself. Yeah. You know? It's like, ooh. You know what I mean? So like I need to go do this or ~ it's like but yeah, but you're but you're not you're not putting yourself out there. You're not growing, you're not e even if it's not perfectly aligned with what you think it is you're here to do. It it does it mean you shouldn't do do anything. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. So this is what happens is I think sometimes you know, 'cause this is you know, this is why this podcast exists, this is why I do I do, is we you in your twenties, you get hit in the face pretty good. We've talked about that. Like it is a prime opportunity to experience you get hit with real life, right? In a sense. And but a lot of what happens is when people in their twenties experience that that causes them not to reflect, evaluate what happened, why it happened, what was God in teach teaching me, what was God intending for me to know w in that. Most people just recoil to safety. So talking about people that we know in this area, it's like, yeah, when they can kind of go back to I hate to say it this way, not because that's not this is not necessarily for everyone, but like you go back and just work for your daddy. You go, ~ you know, parents Buy you a house or apartment just right down the road and and you're just content. And you're like, man, 'cause I I stepped out and I got hit in the face. I don't like that. Yeah. But there was something for there was a treasure. There was something for you to learn. And this is, you know, talking about getting into some of this content this fall, it's like that was that you know, there's there's something to learn in each of the f of the stories of the Bible, some treasure, especially in the failure moments. Like, ooh, there was like a Some like a and I you know, we'll get in more of this, but there was especially in the Old Testament. is you think about we as Westerners look at the old testament and it's like, Give me the information. I want it I want the knowledge. All right, what's the truth of the story so I can get the information and apply it. Where an Eastern thought is, I want to know the story 'cause I want to discover the truth in it. I want I want the discovery part. I want to understand it. And I think God is inviting us all that in our own story. And I think sometimes we miss that in our twenties because it's hard. You know? And we get hit in the face. And, you know, ~ I'm so grateful because I mean I had parents who really ~ and a sport system around me that really encouraged me to to not settle and and to just revert back to what I knew, but actually, you know, encouraged me, supported me in kind of harder situations to kind of go, all right, this is an opportunity for you to grow, to learn, to understand, and and to, you know, we'll we'll support ya or help you out in any way. But like, no, you need to stay in that spot. You know, it's like, ~ crap. Yeah. That's where you actually you actually grow. Yeah. You know, there's something that there's always in the pain, you know, like it's it's wild, yeah. Well and there's also growth opportunities too. So like if you I mean this was my experience a little bit, so and this is what I didn't understand back then, but I I was in jobs that I really did not like. I did some jobs I really didn't like. You know, that were like not exciting to me, like didn't get me excited in the morning to go to work. Like I Sunday nights I'm like, gosh, you know what I mean? Yeah. But like there's even growth in that. You know what I mean? Because I I learned like, Okay, do it anyway. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I I learned that like a and I remember my dad telling me too, like, hey dude, like it's just this is work. Yeah. You know what I mean? And and and I and I and I was exiting this like you know, I I keep talking about coaching but but it's just my story. Like I I just I was I was coaching, I loved it. I I worked, you know, from sun up to sundown. Never saw my wife.~ you know what I mean? So like I I was passionate about that. Like I could I could still be doing that, but I just I ~ I chose my marriage over that because you know what I mean? So so my point is I'm thrust into you know, an inside of sales job where I'm in a cubicle. Yeah. And like I you can imagine the torture. You know what I mean? Like I'm used to Yeah. flying around the country recruiting players and building a team and you know and and helping, you know, these twenty guys that I had in my wide receiver room kinda learn the offense and work together. It was just like everything that I loved. And then I'm thrust into a cubicle. Yeah. You know what I mean? And ~ the good part was I was home every day at five. Yeah. You know, so I got to know my wife again. But like ~ I remember having that conversation with my dad and he my dad was like, Hey look man like and it started that's when I started to understand like Mm-hmm.~ you know, i in order to we've had the episode on sacrifice before, but it's like in order to you you know, you say you wanna you know, you say you wanna stay married and and you know, be there and start a family with with Carly, you know, there's certain sacrifices for that. You have to sacrifice, you know, what you do every day. To bring this all back together to what this whole episode's about, ~ that was when I started to kinda at least hear for the first time that like what I did every day, eight to five, I started to take the pressure off of what that was to in a way to where it had to be what I was super passionate about. Yeah. Because it because my dad was telling me it very subly, but like ~ like it it doesn't like this is work, like it's called work. Because it's work. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so like there's plenty of examples of like people that work and that are doing their passion and all that stuff, but like it's work. You know what I mean? And and I never got that. I started to get it late in my twenties, but like It's not gonna be perfect. You're gonna have issues with people. Like stuff is gonna go wrong. Yeah. It doesn't mean that it's not you're not living out your purpose. It means that you're working every day. Right. And it's like it took me years to figure that out. And so I think that's what's so interesting about this episode and what you were talking about is that, you know, we so it's so easy to tie like, okay, I'm trying to find my purpose, and that just so naturally, you know, shifts into~ Well, it's it has to be in what my job. Right. But it's not. No. It doesn't have to be in your job. No. And it's okay to like not absolutely be in love with what you do. You know, I mean I think it could it actually could provide the financial means to do what you love. Yeah, exactly. Or or maybe your purpose is like family. Yeah. I mean that could shift to that. Yeah. But I I I think, yeah, so I going back to your point, because so what that's doing is teaching you, all right. the end of the day, there's still things I need to responsible for. So when you do, if you let's say, yeah, you do find your purpose through your occupation. Well, guess what? Like you said, there's still responsibilities, there's still people you gotta deal with. There's still like hard times. Like, that's what's so wild about it. So you're making a great point because those like figure out how to do that well when you're not passionate about it, when it's not your purpose, so that when you do, like, yeah, this is just part of it. Yeah. Right? This is what's so weird. about people, it's like, you, you know, there's a level of like, yeah, there's a there's a complete miss of like, you know, when you even you do find your purpose, it may make it easier, but there's still those things there. There's still responsibilities there. Right, and that you still got grow and build it. That's so true. I mean and it's and you're speaking directly to me because you've coached me on this for years. But like it's not a disqualified like the issues that you face day to day, which you will face day to day because it's work. Right. are not disqualifiers for you not being in the right place. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like it's and that's constantly where my head went and it and it still goes sometimes like well I'm having this big issue so I must be, you know, in the wrong place. Well it's like, well Bo, you're gonna go find something else and in six months you're gonna have the same issue. Right. Yeah. And it's just taken me so long to figure that out. Like it's just so naturally where my head goes and I can imagine I know a lot of guys that whose heads work the same way. It's like, you know, there is this kind of marriage between like you know, you hate to just like poo poo on work, but like You know, work is not like always supposed to be super fun. Yeah. And it's like you know what I mean? And I think like with guys my age and guys that are in their early twenties, I mean, we're so used to just this instant gratification, like, if I'm not having fun doing this or if I'm not being like w mentored into and invested into like this is probably not not the right place and it's like no dude that's just how it works. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's it's like Bo that's just you're pro you're you're in the right place. You're just uncomfortable. Right. You can be in the wrong right place and be uncomfortable. Those two things can happen at the same time. And that's what's wild I think is a great point is so waiting, another way to even almost define waiting is like what do you do with that discomfort? Yeah. Like when do I I mean my my whole thing in my twenties was I gotta get out of here. Yeah. So you veil yeah, yeah. You you're looking grass is greener. Yeah. Are the opportunities. For some it's self medicate, right? Yeah. You know, alcohol, porn, gambling, scrolling, right? All that. Yeah, that's how it so how do you not revert so what do I do with that discomfort? Because there's a lot of things you could do with that. And some of it is all right, it's like, all right, there's some there's a tr there's something God has for me in this. Yeah. There's something I'm learning about leadership, about myself, about what I want to do the rest of my life. You know, there's just so like Yeah, there's something else you said that really stimulated a thought and I think I just lost it. But it it's just ~ what yeah, what do you do with with all of that that really should yeah, prepare you for what's coming?~ like he doesn't waste anything. I look back now in my life and there's t moments that were really hard and I go, that's what you were doing. Yeah. You were preparing me for this. You were preparing me for that. You know, it's like it ju it didn't look as pretty and I don't Felt like I handled it as best as I could, but you were still preparing me. You used it. You know? Those low moments. It's like, ~ that's what it is. Yeah. You know? And I remember going through a situation with you where you were coaching me. I was I was working for a guy that you know, that was kinda it it was just me and him and~ And but he was in charge, he owned the business and and I mean you remember this and it was like I just couldn't get any like vision or I couldn't I didn't know where we were going or what what person He wasn't bringing you in, yeah. Yeah, and so I remember even though you're boy right but I mean it but the but the point like I remember you coaching me on this was and I didn't see it at the time but it's like you just said it's what spurred that thought I see it now but you were trying to teach me during all that it wasn't like hey this is what you do to go fix that guy. Yeah. You know the the teaching and the coaching you gave me was okay tell me how what you're learning about how to lead one day. Yeah. You know and I remember thinking of it that way being like, yeah, but how does that help me right now?~ You know, but I mean it's it's well it gives purpose to the pain. It gives purpose to the pain, exactly. Yeah, it gives purpose. So it's like it's like while you're in the middle of it, it's like okay, I'm being I'm being formed and shaped for whatever is in the future. It could still be at this job and I'm just a better version of my working self or it could be somewhere else where I'm actually leading somebody and I'm gonna be like, wait, I gotta communicate this stuff. Yeah. You know what I mean? I gotta be clear about this stuff and these people, these ambitious people that you hire, they need Need that. Yeah. Because I needed it and and I didn't get it, you know, and it and it hurt. Yeah. So like, yeah, I remember you doing that. And and it didn't I mean I was probably in my late twenties at the time. And it didn't really tick at the time 'cause it was like this is not making me feel better right now. No. You know what I mean? It was like I need a plan. But I did need a plan. You know, God had me in that to help shape me and it gave me a better understanding of how how to lead people and how to be led by people. You know what I mean? Like it just so yeah, that just that stuck a nerve. That's totally true. Yes. Yeah, and that was that was I do remember that.'Cause it i it is while like yeah, 'cause I didn't have him in front of me. Yeah. And you know, I imagine there's but I imagine there's something in his past that he didn't address that caused him to like be closed off and, you know, really protective of what he had, right? But it's like we're not gonna spend our time talking about that. Yeah, 'cause we can't change that. Right, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. But we can't change you. Yeah. Yeah. But we can sit here for an hour and a half and talk about how he's wrong about this. Yeah. If you wanted it to be a venting session, we could have done that. Yeah, right. You know. Yeah. But that's not what that's not what this is. No. You know, we're forging men. We're forging you. We're not forging the people around you. You know, and ~ anyway, so Yeah, and there's and there yeah, and that's where you can have moments to wallow, to be pissed off, to to be angry ~ about the situation, but at some point you there there has to be a shift of going, Okay, what am I learning? How am I growing? How am I changing? How is this shaping my purpose? You can even get to that place. Yeah. In life you know, in life, in career, whatever. But ultimately it's like you you gotta like there's some Being in my story that's being used here, and you can even point, you know, get frustrated with God about it. Like, why did you put me in this situation? But ultimately, like that, you have to get to that place of seeing it from his eyes and go, okay, God doesn't care about me making millions of dollars in two seconds and finding the absolute joy in everything I do because I would just completely. take advantage of it. I would completely miss the point of it if I if I got if he did that. Yeah. And you know, and I can compare myself to other people who I think have that, but ultimately there's something else they're dealing with. Yeah. I had a good friend of mine who did a great job. It's like it one day it's like, man, my I was like, my marriage is great, work is good, you know, my kids are great. Got a good community, but man, we were just struggling financially. And he goes, good. So you got one thing. That's that's challenging you, that's growing you, that's stretching you. That's interesting. You know, it's like you gotta have one thing. Like like you know, yeah. He's gonna he's he's and I needed to hear that. You know? So it's like, ~ crap. It's always one thing. There's got he's got there's there's w a thing in your life that he's using to s to grow you and strengthen you 'cause he's pre he's prepare he wastes nothing and he's preparing you. There's a line that always sticks in my head.~ it's like he wastes nothing and he makes you ready. Yeah. For something. Yeah. And You got it. So maybe that's part of the plan of you finding your purpose. It's like the ~ I think the purpose word is sometimes I think it's could be so overused that it gets it it just has so many different definitions. And I think my definition of it honestly in my twenties was what's gonna make me feel good. Yeah. My purpose is my purpose was 100% 100% tied to what's gonna fulfill me. Because why why would God not want me to be in a spot where I'm just 100% f fulfilled and happy? But that's the lie. Yeah. And and it's like in in your twenties, I mean, how easy is it to fall into that? Yeah. You know, I mean, it my purpose must be that I'm comfortable, I'm fulfilled, and I, you know, g get all the autonomy in the world and I get all the you know what I mean? I g I make the money I want and then and if this job doesn't fill that then like this isn't part of my purpose. It's like, no, that's not the definition of purpose. Yeah. You know, and I think I think today, like, I think the the purpose thing is is ~ has the wrong definition attached to it. Yeah. You know. And and and you need to think and maybe not on definition, ~ so shifting that but also like even your mindset towards it of make it about not finding it and it being this like life altering moment, but think about it in the context of discovery. You know, like God's continually drawing you closer to Him. He wants you to know Him so that when He gives you the thing that you want, you don't immediately worship that thing and you worship Him. Yeah.'Cause that's what ends up happening though, right? We get the thing we want and we worship that. Yeah. That's what what it meant. That's the first commandment. You option no other gods before me. Yeah.'Cause what didn't we make those things a god? Yeah. Yeah, and this sounds churchy too. I mean it sounds churchy, but it's just I know it to be true 'cause I've I've experienced it and I've tried so many different jobs and things and and But you're right. It's I think maybe the whole point of it sometimes is is like a lot of this stuff's not gonna make sense to you in your twenties, even your thirties, or throughout your whole life. But the tension in that, you and I talk about this all the time, is something you taught me that I think about all the time. It's like if there's tension between two truths, you know, God does want you to be happy. Yeah. He does want you to be fulfilled. He does it ~ he wants you to do something that you enjoy doing. I mean he doesn't want you to be at a job that sucks. Like it's that's not his you know what I mean? So like but the tension between those two truths is well maybe it's not about either one of those things. Maybe it's because the only way I can really get true fulfillment is through him. Yeah. He's a he's a ~ you taught me this. It's he's a relational God. Yeah. So it's like, hey Bo, stop looking at all these different things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And look at me for just a second. Yeah. You know, and like maybe maybe the point is for him, if you're in your twenties, it's God trying to get your attention and be like, hey, just for a second, look at me. You're you're thinking about all these different things. Yeah. You know, I mean you're you're dealing with all these different issues and things that you're battling in your brain and stuff. It's like, hey, ~ maybe the point of it is to get your attention and and find the one that wants to have a relationship with you and work through it. Mm-hmm.~ I remember you taught me that and it's always changed. It takes the pressure off of like not having a great understanding of everything that's going on in my life. You know, and then it and then when that's been my requirement that I gotta get my hand around this and understand it. Yes. It's like, you know, it's trying to get your grip on a slippery bar of soap. It doesn't work. No. And so the point is maybe, hey Bodie, you're not trying to don't you're not You know, this is not about you figuring this out. This is about you going to the God that wants to have a relationship with you. Yeah. That you can figure it out with. Man. Yeah, that's good. I think that might be the great way to end it. Man, but that's good. so anyway, if you would ch hit the link in the bio and we could we have a ~ A course for you to find your purpose. This will show you how to be happy. You know? No, man. Yeah, that's good. We'll teach you how to be happy. Yeah, I'll teach you. All right, it'll teach you how be happy. And he'll teach you how to fix all the people around you that are idiots. Yep, a hundred percent.~ man.'cause it's not you, man. It's not you. It's all everybody else. Dang. that's hilarious. that's the lesson in itself, man. A hundred percent. I love those stories you tell me about guys that just want you to, you know, yeah come in and fix it. Yeah. Stop the problem. Yeah, yeah. And they anytime I try to help it and it's like, What are you doing? Like, stop. It's not me. It's not me, dude. That's part of me, the learning process for me is I gotta say that up front. Yeah. I'm not here right to fix the problem. I'm here to help you discern and understand what's going on in your life. Yeah, that's right. And help you. navigate it anyway. Alright, appreciate y'all listening. Man, I hope this was helpful. If yeah this ~ resonated with you yeah and you know somebody that would please share with them. That would be great. Hey guys, Carl right here. Excited about what we're doing in Minerforged. If you want to participate in one of our episodes, please send in a question. We want this podcast to answer the questions you're asking. in the description. Click that link. Thanks for listening. we'll see you next time.